From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.1 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 65d7dacf for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2018 18:23:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E072EA1E48; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 04:23:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4D16A1E40; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 04:22:38 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b=aRGjBqf1; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 846FCA1E40; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 04:22:35 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-it0-f52.google.com (mail-it0-f52.google.com [209.85.214.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA0FBA1B0C for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 04:22:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-it0-f52.google.com with SMTP id h20-v6so16042223itf.2 for ; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:22:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=IzMR/+3uhjmJJGtRh2OJZq+Ov7jwUcSW5Vzj2VJbslw=; b=aRGjBqf1YfiR6LC2nPqI9rYJJpaGCqcRB0Iug1MvJ1AnQgeCAKcJCTlFR1ACAsKOfa COm3rSP+uAmTtBitUuC7LZML9oHz91XM5ybReXWUpEosujQ1y5edRtfW7MASOZfC8czK WWu1mdodJV7TLHw0Zqe3l4BfHp1vdSqb7O3Co= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=IzMR/+3uhjmJJGtRh2OJZq+Ov7jwUcSW5Vzj2VJbslw=; b=tI3Ap31C9ypwLnXl8K/eVYMDkV/IbKJXmhr72HHwktZLhc/b1zmCc5e/Ovs7L8eDrC 4MjDLJUDBrrrOskKKimVcS7duL9lvptPgOZGcBmX0FQJRckNR+y5wy2YndI4/Zjs0lef 59r4XlpMO3+2bDIy3rANdxx5ZUrWnNO6iJTkcYrZqWxDx8+pjEb5EqL2r1lMg5ktxLDy qrC7/w5HP3q+eO0W38ErNN9m/bwPZwEoHh8o+uEBLTUdsc/Xn7OezBK1N9VF/KGqyifx 4B1HOaQlXiw4eAHs273+q05e2uHMtYI8MEVLuV7/Zdh/xjju3p8bk1JoLEwQyAuqgsap qwAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51Cr9vkTadKb+nNb08X9x+n/LYSeJCbWahbgEyJ1zn9Kx1KJ0njH 2imR7r4nnKyRb5GJcHkSMt4HAGl0sncvs9osE3EusA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbuUz+I+rnAM26Y+vMcuSpDTgz388O4iEz58VG0QEuPqRaHP/QhxnT2HqIUPV8vYm8bPCg/CQHadvguwMBcdBs= X-Received: by 2002:a02:54c7:: with SMTP id t190-v6mr3403292jaa.92.1536258153794; Thu, 06 Sep 2018 11:22:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1535565898.3905695.1490376112.4B7D3E18@webmail.messagingengine.com> <6e7783fb-ff06-2e21-002f-76bef263b63c@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> <20180829183632.GD8423@mcvoy.com> <83698bdc-c636-5688-5619-27c8c4b41500@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2018 14:22:05 -0400 Message-ID: To: erc@pobox.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008a71fc057537f902" Subject: Re: [TUHS] RetroNet??? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000008a71fc057537f902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 10:12 PM Ed Carp wrote: > I've read that Taylor UUCP fixed a bunch of issues with HDB UUCP - > have you considered using it? > Hmmm.. the only thing it really fixed was the licensing. HBD was part of distributed in the 'toolkit' and as part of Svs V. I think it was part of PWB 3.0, as we shipped it with RTU; but we have have gotten it via the toolkit license [I'm too lazy to look at Warren's System files to check]. HDB was the huge fix of the original version that went 'wide' with V7 and BSD. The primary changes were in house directories and the queues were handled, which had huge performance impact; particularly for large sites with an heavy UUCPnet load (a.k.a. the 'Usenet'). The other things that was in HDB was some collected alternate protocols besides Greg Chesson's original 'g' protocol; although those had all been distributed on the Usenet as net.noise, so all it really did is become a packaging thing. There were a number of UUCP clones written in those days, and PC-uucp was popular for CP/M and later DOS systems that wanted to join the Usenet [Rick Adams, I think had a packaged version of some of them for his non-UNIX customers IIRC). As to why Dave Taylor decided to write another one in thoses, you'ld have to ask him; but in the end it replaced the V7 one in BSD. But a lot of effort was made to make sure Taylor UUCP was more than a functional work-alike. It had admin like HBD and use the same queues etc. What I do not remember, Mary Ann might, is if Berkeley had been running HDB from the Toolkit on ucbvax internally, but could not have easily redistribute it ( seem to remember there were). They funny part is that most Academics had a toolkit license by then becsuse they wanted HDB and ksh as a minimum, so most were running HDB; but the rules in the toolkit for academics were different than the original base license (I've forgotten them -- I had left academia so it did not effect me). But it was around this time the Keith was start to try to remove code that was knows to have AT&T copyright issues, when their was an alternative implementation that had BSD style licenses (which Taylor UUCP, as did Clark's troff as I recall). BTW Grant, Linux picked up Taylor UUCP after BSD (it was not in the original distros and I suspect would have crashed the kernel in those days if the site was as all loaded). =E1=90=A7 --0000000000008a71fc057537f902 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 10:12 PM Ed Carp <erc@pobox.com> wrote:
I= 've read that Taylor UUCP fixed a bunch of issues with HDB UUCP -
have you considered using it?
Hmmm..= the only thing it really fixed was the licensing.=C2=A0 HBD was part of di= stributed in the 'toolkit' and as part of Svs V.=C2=A0 I think it w= as part of PWB 3.0, as we shipped it with RTU; but we have have gotten it v= ia the toolkit license [I'm too lazy to look at Warren's System fil= es to check].=C2=A0=C2=A0

HDB was the huge fix of the original version that w= ent 'wide' with V7 and BSD.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The primary changes were in= house directories and the queues were handled, which had huge performance = impact; particularly for large sites with an heavy UUCPnet load (a.k.a. the= 'Usenet').=C2=A0 =C2=A0The other things that was in HDB was some c= ollected alternate protocols besides Greg Chesson's original 'g'= ; protocol; although those had all been distributed on the Usenet as net.no= ise, so all it really did is become a packaging thing.

There were a number of= UUCP clones written in those days, and PC-uucp was popular for CP/M and la= ter DOS systems that wanted to join the Usenet [Rick Adams, I think had a p= ackaged version of some of them for his non-UNIX customers IIRC).=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=C2=A0

As to why Dave Taylor decided to write another one in thoses, you&#= 39;ld have to ask him; but in the end it replaced the V7 one in BSD.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0But a lot of effort was made to make sure Taylor UUCP was more than a= functional work-alike.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It had admin like HBD and use the same = queues etc.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0What I do not remember, Mary Ann might, is i= f Berkeley had been running HDB from the Toolkit on ucbvax internally, but = could not have easily redistribute it ( seem to remember there were).=C2=A0= =C2=A0They funny part is that most Academics had a toolkit license by then= becsuse they wanted HDB and ksh as a minimum, so most were running HDB; bu= t the rules in the toolkit for academics were different than the original b= ase license (I've forgotten them -- I had left academia so it did not e= ffect me).=C2=A0 =C2=A0But it was around this time the Keith was start to t= ry to remove code that=C2=A0 was knows to have AT&T copyright issues, w= hen their was an alternative implementation that had BSD style licenses (wh= ich Taylor UUCP, as did Clark's troff as I recall).

BTW Grant, Linux pick= ed up Taylor UUCP after BSD (it was not in the original distros and I suspe= ct would have crashed the kernel in those days if the site was as all loade= d).
3D""=E1=90=A7
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