From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 18105 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2021 21:06:48 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 6 Apr 2021 21:06:48 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 17DB49CAE9; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 07:06:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1B3F9C723; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 07:06:32 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="n6C22qX0"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7FBB89C723; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 07:06:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f52.google.com (mail-qv1-f52.google.com [209.85.219.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CED8E9C722 for ; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 07:06:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f52.google.com with SMTP id u3so5788980qvj.8 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 14:06:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MjA3NzWS3p2iTJNwMlxoZJWScAdhyqh4nIe9SNI2dR4=; b=n6C22qX0KJkekFr2pqG6bmzduuywBzOmCcP5Yo7PpP4aMEUDGH9JF0G/Fe13fPDIuw pT6poe/uYfAdzScOu6FxR2RT+rQoAxe9fRrOdzvpS5rO2Zw64jxp36GAUwDQzShfH84I c3KRCj3Xf/Hi0hMRY9dvNLXEN1e3j4Mre0Ha8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MjA3NzWS3p2iTJNwMlxoZJWScAdhyqh4nIe9SNI2dR4=; b=SyKcQChhngoV7CZwO/s3pGazPhSGoCl4+5v407Qg0OQakqjaXqFlygzHvg472DGfkI xz7M1OGJavgHe4rqPoPja64rHxxndoBHzB6Dr8+MefstZRpm89tmZ21NLXE8Smt1BLfA Ovcn3TmUVWs42C2rBivDjBSRpcMyQuwgnDH0xS8Y4GD2sx4z5S/igfqwdjwXQcfOj/3v ZSKWcDVFOb8wTntZ7DUr15bahIticGgC0lLSP9JE7mgSwtTKBIWhm4TmzI+A/gk7pEJO IE6DiGOXB34TVyndoOqfhdmKpgkwmn5Wq1ctGMRM2h3gKaWmlFYvXi6OugjDfG5R81i2 9NtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53224e1jwH7ho0J6uO1lQg118fDjjjvzOto+judCInWXRAHMl2wT u72nsW3FELF95eO0mos5gCpAPyk6LCieLPoprqjVNF7jTCJk6w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyCfYO0ntGwG7sT60nc9sbY3Ab8P9qiUsVcpEG8cfMke1ijaml0gCjl4hNONrwHqoswrHrbYVnbs2Kn4df5KGs= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:4bce:: with SMTP id l14mr130964qvw.30.1617743189801; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 14:06:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <04e60d98-22e3-acb5-686f-93af1f7e2825@technologists.com> <20210406201118.GA3953@naleco.com> In-Reply-To: <20210406201118.GA3953@naleco.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 17:06:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: Josh Good Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002a908705bf5430b9" Subject: Re: [TUHS] PC Unix (had been How to Kill a Technical Conference X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000002a908705bf5430b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Like a lot of things, it depends. In the early 80s, they tried to break the 'small' computer market that had been using minis like PDP-11s or DG Novas. A saw a lot of small installations at places like car dealerships and repair houses. You strapped a cheap terminal [Wyse 25/50/60/75 were very popular]. My local Chinese restaurant still runs with 3 Wyse 60s talking to something in the back. It used to be a Wyse 386:16 running Xenix. As Charlie said he ran a UUCP server on one. Someone (3COM maybe) added an ethernet and an 8/16 line serial board like the Rocket Board (which I think I may still have one around) and sold them as terminal servers. to larger systems. A few things happen --- the 68000 style machines such as Masscomp, Apollo, and Sun could do the same thing much better and were not much different in price (remember an original PC/AT 286 with max memory and DOS cost $5K at computerland and it was another $1k for Xenix plus whatever the app cost). Compaq was cheaper but not much. A diskless Sun3 was 7.5K also, but you needed at least one full Sun3 to be the server (and they also sucked, most people bought add-in disk Unix for another 4K -- another good story for another time]. The Apps cost the same between Xenix and Sun and that sort of sealed the deal, particularly when the apps moved to DOS and then were cheaper still. So if you wanted a timing sharing box there were options that were in the same price range and basically 'better' AND IBM/Compaq started to push DOS and that ecosystem which was cheaper. =E1=90=A7 On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:12 PM Josh Good wrote: > On 2021 Apr 6, 12:32, Charles H Sauer wrote: > > For much of my last few years at IBM, my uucp machine, ibmchs, was an A= T > > running Xenix, probably that version of Xenix. > > Hi. I'm curious about that Xenix vintage. How did you use that machine: > headless from a serial terminal?, or at the VGA console? Was it "single > user" or shared among several people? Did you run Xenix and only SCO > provided software, or did you had third party software in it? Were you > using it by choice as your favourite Unix, or merely because it was the > only Unix you could have? Did you like living with Xenix? Did it have > problems, o was it "setup and forget"? > > If you feel like sharing that experience, thank you very much. > > -- > Josh Good > > --0000000000002a908705bf5430b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Like a lot of things, it depends.=C2=A0 In the early 80= s, they tried to break the 'small' computer market that had been us= ing minis like PDP-11s or DG Novas.=C2=A0 =C2=A0A saw a lot of small instal= lations=C2=A0at places like car dealerships=C2=A0and repair houses.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0You strapped a cheap terminal [Wyse 25/50/60/75 were very popular].= =C2=A0 My local Chinese=C2=A0restaurant=C2=A0still runs with 3 Wyse 60s tal= king to something=C2=A0in the back.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It used to be a Wyse 386:16= running Xenix.=C2=A0

As Charlie said he ran a UUCP s= erver on one.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Someone (3COM maybe) added an ethernet and an 8/= 16 line serial board like the=C2=A0Rocket Board (which I think I may still = have one around) and sold them as terminal servers. to larger systems.

A few things happen ---=C2=A0 the 68000 style machines suc= h as Masscomp, Apollo, and Sun could do the same thing much better and were= not much different in price (remember an original=C2=A0PC/AT 286 with max = memory and DOS cost $5K at computerland and it was another $1k for Xenix pl= us whatever the app cost).=C2=A0 Compaq was cheaper but not much.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0A diskless Sun3 was 7.5K also, but you needed at least one full Sun3 to = be the server (and they also sucked, most people bought add-in disk Unix fo= r another 4K -- another good story for another time]. The Apps cost the sam= e between Xenix and Sun and that sort of sealed the deal, particularly when= the apps moved to DOS and then were cheaper still.

So= if you wanted a timing sharing box there were options that were in the sam= e price range and basically 'better' AND IBM/Compaq started to push= DOS and that ecosystem which was cheaper.
3D""=E1=90=A7
On= Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 4:12 PM Josh Good <pepe@naleco.com> wrote:
On 2021 Apr=C2=A0 6, 12:32, Charles H Sauer wrote:
> For much of my last few years at IBM, my uucp machine, ibmchs, was an = AT
> running Xenix, probably that version of Xenix.

Hi. I'm curious about that Xenix vintage. How did you use that machine:=
headless from a serial terminal?, or at the VGA console? Was it "singl= e
user" or shared among several people? Did you run Xenix and only SCO provided software, or did you had third party software in it? Were you
using it by choice as your favourite Unix, or merely because it was the
only Unix you could have? Did you like living with Xenix? Did it have
problems, o was it "setup and forget"?

If you feel like sharing that experience, thank you very much.

--
Josh Good

--0000000000002a908705bf5430b9--