FYI - UNIX is about 10-12 years old by the time Matt is describing - there are thousands of sites by then. I was describing what it was like when it 30-50 sites. Clem ᐧ On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 2:39 PM segaloco via TUHS wrote: > At least as far as I can glean from manuals, there is the "trouble" > command circa UNIX/TS 4.0 which was "a front end for the Piscataway Change > Management Tracking System (CMTS)". > > This was used to report issues over uucp to Piscataway where they would > then be transformed into Modification Requests, examples of which in the > form of the request form *and* a list of 1980-1983 changes are in Sys V > literature I've scanned. > > The utility would request: > - The user name > - Their location > - Phone number > - Type of request: Hardware, software, documentation, enhancement, and > unknown > - System: Product in need of support (usually unix) > - Release (can be N/A) > - Severity: 1 - highest 4 - lowest > - Date > - Abstract/Summary > - Detailed Description > > There is a note here too that unless stated otherwise, reports may be > selected for publication in the "Mini-System Newsletter". > > I've never heard of this Mini-System Newsletter. It sounds like among > other things it had a digest of significant trouble reports to notify the > network of known issues. > > The UNIX System Error Message Manual refers to two "Support Organizations" > in the Bell system: > > - Field service representatives that support the hardware > - Local software support and "UNIX System Customer Service" > > The manual goes on to mention the preferred group for many of the errors > encounterable > > I suppose this means there was usually a local guru pertinent to the type > of machinery (PDP, VAX, 3B-20) and then maybe some local software folks and > then the man support group. > > Looks like for BTL-specific extensions, Division 452 was point of contact > on that one. In the notes for the Release 5.0 manuals (troff comments) Lab > > The System V modification request form lists "UNIX System Support Center" > in Lisle, Illinois as the point of contact for these forms. > > The 4.0 documentation roadmap mentions getting documentation resources > from the Computer Information Service Library. > > The 5.0 BTL-specific manual has a second trouble page listing "UNIX > Computer Center Support" instead of Piscataway as the recipient of trouble > reports. > > In the same manual is also "wwbmail", an application that would send help > requests directly to the "Writers Workbench" group. I haven't checked this > manual exhaustively yet so there could be other nuggets in there. > > Of course, going back in the history of UNIX, in the early days, man pages > listed the application author/maintainer with the implication they should > be directly contacted with questions. This changed in V3 I think, which is > around the time SCCS would've been playing around with what would become > CB-UNIX. I dunno when USG and the PWB groups first formally start to tinker > on things, but I recall reading around 1973 being a likely backstop. I > assume USG handled a lot of this traffic until the 80s and the > formalization of a bunch of these other groups. > > So all in all from various manuals, this is the picture I can glean from > early 80s: > > Support Groups: > > - USG Proper > - UNIX System Customer Service > - UNIX System Support Center > - UNIX Computer Center Support > - Piscataway (USG? PWB?) > - WWB Direct Mailing List > > > Documentation: > > - Computer Information Service Library > > > - Might be the same group but there is a trifold (I can't find right > now) that lists the User's Manual along with the two falling blocks guides > circa UNIX/TS 4.0 that could be requested from some doc group > - Various labs and divisions that maintained their own manual versions > > > - Mini-System Newsletter > > > Granted, this is all based on manuals, doesn't consider any activities of > USENIX or what BSD folks were doing for their help and support. Hopefully I > haven't misrepresented anything, happy to illuminate any references that > may be dubious. > > - Matt G. > ------- Original Message ------- > On Wednesday, February 8th, 2023 at 10:58 AM, Will Senn < > will.senn@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > > Today, as I was tooling around on stack overflow, I decided to ask a > question on meta. For those of you who don't know, stack overflow is > supposedly a q&a site. There are zillions of answers to quite a few "how to > do i do x" style questions. Folks upvote and downvote the answers and the > site is a goto for a lot of developers. I've used it since it came online - > back in the late 2000's. I have a love hate relationship with the site. > When there's a good answer to a question that I have, I love it. When they > downvote fringe cases that I care about to the point where they effectively > become gray literature that is near on impossible to locate - I hate it. > Meta is supposedly where you go to ask questions about the stack. > > Yesterday, I asked this question: > > Do you know of any studies that have been done around downvoted content, > specifically on stack overflow or stack exchange? > > By way of background - I find any questions or answers that are on the > border (+1, 0, -1) as dubiously helpful, but when the downvotes pile up, > much like upvotes, the answers become interesting to me again as they give > me insights I might miss otherwise. > > > After a slew of why would you think that was interesting, there's no value > with upvotes and downvotes, and your question is unclear responses along > with, as of now, 31 downvotes net, the question was closed for lack of > clarity. My answer, which was informed by some of the comments was: > > There don't appear to be any papers on downvoting specific to Stack > Overflow. You can find a good list of known academic papers using Stack > Exchange data in the list hosted on Stack Exchange Meta (link). It is an > attempt to keep a current list of works up to date. > > The Stack Exchange Data Explorer (link) is an open API for doing data > research, if you want to dig into the data yourself. > > > Which was quickly downvoted 9 times net. > > To see the entire debacle: > > > https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/423080/are-there-any-serious-studies-on-the-value-of-downvoting > > Anyhow, other than what I perceive to be a decidely hostile environment > for asking questions, it is still actually a useful resource. > > Wow, have times changed though on the hostility front. > > So, it got me thinking... > > What was it like in the very beginning of things (well, ok, maybe not the > very beginning, but around and after the advent of v6 and when it was at or > around 50 sites) for folks needing answers to questions related to unix? > > The questions... and for the love of Pete, don't downvote me anymore > today, I'm a fragile snowflake, and I might just cry... > > What was the mechanism - phone, email, dropbox of questions, snail mail, > saint bernardnet, what? > What was the mood - did folks quickly tire of answering questions and get > snippy, or was it all roses? > When did those individual inquiries get too much and what change was made > to aggregate things? > > I'm thinking there may have been overlap between unix users and usenet... > Also, I remember using fidonet for some of my early question about linux, > but that was 1991, many years after the rise of unix. > > Thanks, > > Will > > >