From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13764 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2021 13:16:30 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 28 Apr 2021 13:16:30 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AC5839C88A; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 23:16:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05319C87B; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 23:15:45 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="NPgJcpJW"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5B96B9C87B; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 23:15:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f178.google.com (mail-qk1-f178.google.com [209.85.222.178]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC1B19C87A for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 23:15:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f178.google.com with SMTP id v20so8535471qkv.5 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 06:15:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1spA3Q4HIS4MnfcMl48o8WeHqDq7wCE8QBcu7przWw4=; b=NPgJcpJWXgF24mqXQqNIpqI2I4g2gI7QikL6rp1kxrr4sjPY8P5yJGMXUDFwQuvCui cxlM1lMH0p/km8eeQAQk/ng3cpp9UCIIqkVkTarepORA7OWDAImbmV3htxGlRe7Bu6Ml mD0qNTdzhyHK/VqLdiAoY4zyE74UG3CGOeyqc= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1spA3Q4HIS4MnfcMl48o8WeHqDq7wCE8QBcu7przWw4=; b=j4OL5GHvL1++MLUvNkb5HmzdQL3Wc7TI630bEwzxoEmfFAdZpgWcvzQaxIsSuKLKts U1x+/ONhd4xWuPFMssqPJzTcQmK5jdcwaO5btjQWvgEO3LfLemV/T/BzobCUzlMT1o8R 51547oFPh6ms5ohmCNO4YOBuyx8QXXW87/i+Kyxg+4pktJ3JetqzkSb+TB+opduZutnt fw5/FTgZ2NBsYxExao1E6W+wgavGwkSyYutpRk1ANAEdZTFAz2KHjMahPmokjQo7fzLQ AwzMYNr+UJXC2eprMczokdDq59iP45ZV2tKcDFY6VLuXhTD9tV+OuPCDopuVkoXC/U+P utIw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533LB3IfU33BUJmfDDFeoAr39jDig4FdHxLzpPDolW0YkwV3MufM RIZALlXrmhR2Lch0QK6CpTB7I9UUgkyYzh4XyG/2PQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx0ORbFufHCtM05eh2qsFKFiU3stCwKkv8jVKhjDIj8eCk6yrPR1ELwlhd8bzdv6DU7UCDviLNuyvrbQPMNYPs= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:f:: with SMTP id j15mr28375273qki.307.1619615740479; Wed, 28 Apr 2021 06:15:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6FA14ECA-0E2D-4A0A-A1B1-2C0C79FDCFE6@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <6FA14ECA-0E2D-4A0A-A1B1-2C0C79FDCFE6@gmail.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 09:15:14 -0400 Message-ID: To: Adam Thornton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e25efe05c1082c33" Subject: Re: [TUHS] How to install 4.3BSD Quasijarus on VAXStation 4000 VLC? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000e25efe05c1082c33 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable right - but the beauty of doing the heavy lifting in simh is that you add/drop virtual devices as needed. Make one disk with the VAXstation bootstrap and another with the 780 style. Once you know you have a proper bootstrap, root partition, and /usr partition that will work properly on the target / you know that now have the bits you need to boot to 'single user.' If you are really aggressive, you can create /etc/fstab.780 and /etc/fstab.vs before you go to the real HW. Because the key point is the simh 'virtual disks' are just blocks and dd is your friend here. You can build up the bits on the real disk from the known pieces you create separate files for simh. Once you have a physical disk with proper bits boot, then start up to 'single user' and fix up anything that really needs to be HW specific. Although a little work in /etc/rc{,.local} can even be pre-made to automate that by having the script detect with CPU you booted and ln /etc/fstab to the proper one. As I said, you should be able to do almost all of the work on the simh system before you go to the real HW. Sure beats how we had to bootstrap systems back in the day. The truth is we used pretty much the same process to do this type of task, but had to find a common disk between the 'parent' system and the 'target.' simh can make Frankenstein systems that never existed in which adds a layer of ease, plus you even without that, since its just bits, you can take a partition from a virtual disk on any geometry and move them to another disk with a different geometry -- something much harder to do with real hardware. Everything here is just SW, which is a load faster and easier ;-) Good luck, Clem On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 11:01 PM Adam Thornton wrote: > > > On Apr 27, 2021, at 1:51 PM, Clem Cole wrote: > > Might I would suggest a slightly different path. > > Install Quasijarus on a more traditional vax processor with RH style > disks [RMxx/RPxx] on the simh. Then add a virtual RZ SCSI disk to the > simh system [although you might not even need to do that - as simh just > sees the disk as a linear file of blocks without any geometry]. The tric= k > is to make sure the virtual disk is set up so that you have a working > system/booting system on the virtual disk when changing the processor typ= e > to match the VAXstation. Then just DD the image to a real SCSI drive and > move it to the VAXstation. > > > I=E2=80=99m guessing I will at least have to copy the right bootloader an= d update > the fstab, but I=E2=80=99ll copy the disk after installation and then see= what > happens. > > Adam > --000000000000e25efe05c1082c33 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
right - but the beauty of doing the heavy lifting in si= mh is that you add/drop virtual devices as needed.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Make one dis= k with the VAXstation bootstrap and another with the 780 style.=C2=A0 Once = you know you have a proper bootstrap, root partition, and /usr partition th= at will work properly on the target / you know that now have the bits you n= eed to boot to 'single user.'=C2=A0 If you are really aggressive, y= ou=C2=A0can create /etc/fstab.780 and /etc/fstab.vs before you go to the re= al HW.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Because the key point is the simh 'virtual disks'= ; are just blocks and dd is your friend here.=C2=A0 You can build up the bi= ts on the real disk from the known pieces you create separate files=C2=A0fo= r simh.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Once you have a physical disk with proper bits b= oot, then start up to 'single user' and fix up anything that really= needs to be HW specific.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Although=C2=A0a little work in /etc/r= c{,.local} can even be pre-made to automate that by having the script detec= t with CPU you booted and ln /etc/fstab to the proper one.

As I said, you should be able to do almost all of the work on the sim= h system before you go to the real HW.=C2=A0

Sure be= ats how we had to bootstrap systems back in the day.=C2=A0 The truth is we = used pretty much the same process to do this type of task, but had to find = a common disk between the 'parent' system and the 'target.'= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0simh can make Frankenstein=C2=A0systems that never exis= ted in which adds a layer of ease,=C2=A0plus you even without that, since i= ts just bits,=C2=A0you can take a partition from a virtual disk on any geom= etry and move them to another disk with a different=C2=A0geometry -- someth= ing much harder to do with real hardware.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Everything here is j= ust SW, which is a load faster and easier ;-)

Good lu= ck,
Clem

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 11:01 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
<= div>

On Apr 27, 2021, at 1:51 PM= , Clem Cole <clemc@cc= c.com> wrote:

Might I would sugges= t a slightly different path.

Install=C2=A0Quasijarus=C2=A0on a mor= e traditional vax processor with RH style disks [RMxx/RPxx] on the simh.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0Then add a virtual RZ SCSI disk to the simh system [although you = might not even need to do that - as simh just sees the disk as a linear fil= e of blocks without any geometry].=C2=A0 The trick is to make=C2=A0sure the= virtual disk is set up so that you have a working system/booting system on= the virtual disk when changing the processor type to match the VAXstation.= =C2=A0 Then just DD the image to a real SCSI drive=C2=A0and move it to the = VAXstation.

I=E2=80=99m guessi= ng I will at least have to copy the right bootloader and update the fstab, = but I=E2=80=99ll copy the disk after installation and then see what happens= .

Adam
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