From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7739 invoked from network); 15 Jun 2020 14:56:52 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 15 Jun 2020 14:56:52 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 72C959C5E7; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 00:56:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E839C24C; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 00:56:32 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="QEXV6MIb"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CE01B9C24C; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 00:56:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f172.google.com (mail-qt1-f172.google.com [209.85.160.172]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6404A9C246 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 00:56:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f172.google.com with SMTP id g62so12776192qtd.5 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 07:56:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LGr9O6RDCtTyQ00uM/ggEfI0dJBfwCXQhxqRlI2XIcw=; b=QEXV6MIbhkdIIGtpe1DN3yeT1FaP6uyLR8u39wkQWIf4UAW8hf1ky8VpjmeN/Zzg/1 2dth1qG7QiHvK7vn9EZV+sSOpJIQFLUI9UIz6+A0SMk2Qg4vzr47qENF+REzk4tX4YdK VUl5jdKfqkNJhNxWvEWXRjfGXhROn/sv8GebU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LGr9O6RDCtTyQ00uM/ggEfI0dJBfwCXQhxqRlI2XIcw=; b=IyVyxwh8PoeXPSWNSoONUZ0KQiAOKpdDvvMBCHCXSw5LxfhtlAkxvMkPBcVk0XPZc9 UlwQ22KwC7rv+APwnFJ7H9pzTpIEsL06w1H4VgFGZWFhZU2Hnt0nO2ni+cGDP3Whdr4M cEIaP0WVXJm9dezDDxNqEyLJZJfhXXsZysidcb2gIpyIW72jWb8s5f185lTpaaIvdzs3 nMuQd5A8hZCqXeVKX10nsLB61k3nCF93/8wKagsNyk68r1c7wTOYyntoks6HW13SoVQO s9b5KFJ6hSX2Jw+bQfuNn4DoCgxEEOU4eXU0s7v/OnzjRrdaYPoqafdo0r7hkduaofIB Vz1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532mF8CgtyWCBaSnyt+IHHhwbOr30VKfXivrstGNF0t0bMrCeNjQ D/is7TMEwzUldiW+aSwtFy6FC/hrrdskwDpk8Q0aq9tybUA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxCPwXcbPTSKlahbzJwKjakI7vZLv5ejTXVXWc/68D/bxyIGF0U/79aK+h8v5Epjv1bjQOnH8ZahpNCtg2olQ0= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:7613:: with SMTP id t19mr16083577qtq.33.1592232988270; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 07:56:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200614225208.GB6122@minnie.tuhs.org> <7wsgewophe.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <10160f8c-62a3-014b-43a1-65025f27cde5@mhorton.net> In-Reply-To: <10160f8c-62a3-014b-43a1-65025f27cde5@mhorton.net> From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 10:56:02 -0400 Message-ID: To: Mary Ann Horton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aa784205a820a125" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Fwd: Origins and life of the pg pager X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Michael Siegel Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000aa784205a820a125 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:15 AM Mary Ann Horton wrote: > Hmm. Clem has a far richer recollection than I do. I don't recall Dan's > version, but I defer to Clem. > > I do have a vague recollection of a program called cr3 intended to mimic > the tty driver thing. Perhaps that was Dan's version. > You know, indeed it might have been called cr3 originally. We used it for such a short time. I just remember we had something that was an alternative to pg(1), there was something different about it, maybe it better used the try driver's canonical modes, I really don't remember. I do remember when the TERMCAP based more(1) showed up, we all switched to it overnight. Funny, when Steve Zimmerman was at Masscomp, one of the things he did was put the ITS style 'more' into the TTY driver (along with Tenex style ^T), both of which I loved having until I went to Stellar -- it was always on my list of things that would be cool. But we had window managers by then, and we never thought adding more into the TTY driver it was worth it. The truth is, either put it in the driver as a base feature so everything that runs gets support for it without having to remember to add it to the pipeline, or solves the problem more globally like a window manager does. I can see good arguments to both schemes -- that later is a tad more elegant and see seems simpler / less complex (Doug's rules). In fact, we have lived with that style of solution for years, but ... I still need to use more(1) even with a window manager/terminal emulator that allows me to scroll 'forever' [I don't need many of the features of less(1)], but something like p/pg/more does seem to be desirable. --000000000000aa784205a820a125 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 10:1= 5 AM Mary Ann Horton <mah@mhorton.net= > wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Hmm. Clem has a far richer recollection than I do. I don't recal= l Dan's version, but I defer to Clem.

I do have a vague recollection of a program called cr3 intended to mimic the tty driver thing. Perhaps that was Dan's version.

You know, indeed it mi= ght have been called cr3 originally.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We used it for such a shor= t time.=C2=A0 I just remember we had something that was an alternative to p= g(1), there was something different about it, maybe it better used the try = driver's canonical modes, I really don't remember.=C2=A0 I do remem= ber when the TERMCAP based more(1) showed up, we all switched to it overnig= ht.=C2=A0

Funny, when Steve Zimmerman was= at Masscomp, one of the things he did was put the ITS style 'more'= into the TTY driver (along with Tenex style ^T), both of which=C2=A0 I lov= ed having until I went to Stellar -- it was always on my list of things tha= t would be cool.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But we had window managers by then, and we nev= er=C2=A0thought adding more into the TTY driver it was worth it.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0The truth is, either put it in the driver as a base feature so everythin= g that runs gets support for it without having to remember to add it to the= pipeline, or solves the problem more globally like a window manager does.<= /span>=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0I can see good arguments to both schemes -- th= at later is a tad more elegant and see seems simpler / less complex (Doug&#= 39;s rules).=C2=A0 In fact, we have lived with that style of solution=C2=A0fo= r years, but ... I still=C2=A0need to use = more(1) even with a window manager/terminal emulator that allows me to scro= ll 'forever' [I don't need many of the features of less(1)]= , but something like p/pg/more does seem to be desirable.
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