From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au>
Cc: Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl>, tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Early GUI on Linux
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 20:15:47 -0500 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAC20D2OoN-cbyz9_2NA8WgTVw2We740cab=FZ_W+GrxYw+w+3A@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Y/1UJbZnBYt61sSB@largo.jsg.id.au>
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I believe Ken Keller wrote the original framemaker using X10 - (maybe 11
but I thought it was 10) running on a Sun3 - I’ll try ask him. He was
trying to keep it systems independent and at the time X was the most
promising way to do that.
On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 8:09 PM Jonathan Gray <jsg@jsg.id.au> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 06:22:09PM +0100, Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS wrote:
> >
> > Thanks all for the insights. Let me attempt a summary.
> >
> > What it boils down to is that X arrived on Linux very early, because
> what the Linux hackers needed/wanted was a familiar terminal multiplexer.
> It seems that the pattern persists till the present day (and yes, it
> matches with my own dev setup/needs). I wonder to what extent this is a
> generational thing though. Maybe today’s twenty-somethings spend their days
> in front of Xcode, VStudio, Eclipse, etc. more than using multiple
> terminals.
> >
> > This ties in with another observation on early window systems. The
> earliest Unix window system that I could find (i.e. documented) was NUnix
> from 1981/82. Its desktop was designed around the idea of a dozen or so top
> level windows, each one being either a shell window or a graphics canvas,
> with no real concept of a widget set, dialogs, etc., or even of
> sub-windows. This paradigm seems to have been more or less the same in the
> Blit terminal, and carried through in MGR, Mux and even as late as 8 1/2.
> In the context where this serves the needs of core user group, such makes
> sense.
> >
> > ===
> >
> > It is in stark contrast with developments at the lower/consumer end of
> the market. The original Mac, GEM and Windows all placed much more emphasis
> on being a graphical user interface, with standard widgets and UI design
> elements. On Unix and X it remained a mess. It seems that this was both for
> technical reasons (X not imposing a standard) and for economic reasons (the
> Unix wars). Linux then inherited the mess and the core user/developer
> demographic had no need/wish/time to fix it.
> >
> > It makes me wonder when true graphical applications started to appear
> for X / Unix / Linux (other than stuff like terminal, clock, calculator,
> etc.). The graphical browser certainly is one (1993). StarOffice and Applix
> seem to have arrived around 1995. Anything broadly used before that?
>
> When did Interleaf and Framemaker have X based versions?
>
> "Framemaker was the main application everybody would run to prove that
> their X box actually worked"
> Andrew McRae - Sun, Surf and X in California
> AUUGN, Volume 10, Number 4, August 1989
> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V10.4.pdf
>
--
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-02-28 1:16 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 57+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-02-25 21:31 [TUHS] " Paul Ruizendaal
2023-02-25 22:49 ` [TUHS] " Dan Cross
2023-02-26 1:27 ` Larry McVoy
2023-02-26 0:39 ` Warner Losh
2023-02-26 1:14 ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2023-02-26 15:50 ` Leah Neukirchen
2023-02-26 16:13 ` Larry McVoy
2023-02-26 16:23 ` Leah Neukirchen
2023-02-26 16:32 ` Warner Losh
2023-02-26 16:39 ` Will Senn
2023-02-26 19:58 ` Dave Horsfall
2023-02-27 0:16 ` Adam Thornton
2023-02-27 10:09 ` Ralph Corderoy
2023-02-26 2:21 ` Jonathan Gray
2023-02-27 17:22 ` Paul Ruizendaal
2023-02-27 18:32 ` Warner Losh
2023-02-26 2:27 ` Will Senn
2023-02-26 2:30 ` Will Senn
2023-02-26 2:40 ` Theodore Ts'o
2023-02-26 3:28 ` Dan Cross
2023-02-26 3:45 ` Warner Losh
2023-02-26 5:24 ` John Cowan
2023-02-26 5:36 ` Steve Nickolas
2023-02-28 3:35 ` Dave Horsfall
2023-02-27 17:22 ` Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
2023-02-27 17:59 ` Arno Griffioen via TUHS
2023-02-27 18:07 ` Warner Losh
2023-02-27 20:04 ` [TUHS] Generational development [was Re: Re: Early GUI on Linux] arnold
2023-02-27 20:08 ` [TUHS] " Chet Ramey
2023-02-27 20:22 ` arnold
2023-02-27 20:46 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-02-27 21:04 ` Dan Cross
2023-02-28 7:59 ` arnold
2023-02-28 15:28 ` Clem Cole
[not found] ` <CAP2nic1STmWn5YTrnvFbexwwfYWT=pD28gXpVS1CVSfOOwxx7g@mail.gmail.com>
2023-02-28 15:50 ` [TUHS] Fwd: " Adam Thornton
2023-02-27 20:50 ` [TUHS] " Chet Ramey
2023-02-27 20:55 ` Bakul Shah
2023-02-27 21:01 ` segaloco via TUHS
2023-02-27 21:15 ` Chet Ramey
2023-02-27 21:22 ` Dan Cross
2023-02-27 20:30 ` [TUHS] Re: Early GUI on Linux Dan Cross
2023-02-28 1:10 ` Alexis
2023-02-28 1:27 ` Dan Cross
2023-03-01 16:39 ` Paul Ruizendaal
2023-03-01 16:54 ` Larry McVoy
2023-03-01 17:22 ` Paul Ruizendaal
2023-03-01 17:52 ` Larry McVoy
2023-03-02 1:17 ` Jonathan Gray
2023-03-02 4:28 ` Larry McVoy
2023-03-02 6:46 ` [TUHS] X timeline Lars Brinkhoff
2023-03-01 18:59 ` [TUHS] Re: Early GUI on Linux Theodore Ts'o
2023-03-02 7:27 ` arnold
2023-02-28 1:08 ` Jonathan Gray
2023-02-28 1:15 ` Clem Cole [this message]
2023-02-27 20:56 ` Will Senn
2023-02-27 22:14 ` Andru Luvisi
2023-02-27 22:31 ` David Arnold
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