From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8520 invoked from network); 10 Sep 2020 20:29:05 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 10 Sep 2020 20:29:05 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CB9729C764; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 06:29:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8ED09C6B4; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 06:28:07 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="Fp7h2YuR"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6E4AD9C6B4; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 06:28:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f177.google.com (mail-qt1-f177.google.com [209.85.160.177]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1AD69C6AE for ; Fri, 11 Sep 2020 06:27:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f177.google.com with SMTP id y11so5937443qtn.9 for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 13:27:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0FtwCQXDI1VQcVzN0H4/ps2ICBktWIOngHeR86cyRgI=; b=Fp7h2YuRS+/T0hEfp60ECWN0iY3ujibSS+CeQxexlXyQwf3YCpq30N12zzEDPHyu1m 02l1EHhwFnVLshIJFocE9QdmYJ2j8yoQGkvfQejq9S02SB21AmOEdImgGicIIZFmRF5F K2EVu+ysbPe7bo1Rff20+T4oLhetvtCM3djeQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0FtwCQXDI1VQcVzN0H4/ps2ICBktWIOngHeR86cyRgI=; b=J8k1jtP9JH25YrgM86fQ7EcsnNY1Ki/dtYC+Tp3bLbJzI/azenVZRDsGnTU2NFgwJn RhLZtoNrW2KWkAhryXYy6cl9qKGLpd8bx5damD139vs3Uo9vnisX7wTgPXMGvpFgju0A rXZxQN818TEsU6ujB1AcnAX57BiVawGj9uFfbexdTqgqbRD+Cx63XZ9YNQExs/CKBBBA Z+/7PUzptWTbeQeLGAbD6fVxaqbtyh1AaIYEnCs+jLV8fzDMkYzljyy/LAUrMX0BM/rQ tQrrDsEWeY3t0iMHZADXLJsFJHgWdSN73eP4DVzhTtUHpdgdQN2f08GcS/tAB9By7nK0 Sr6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533lvrvbt+DvBsk50vvgYUrLIu+ctIpgKMkCHeHoEEVAvq+XoDSE kchNsnLs5/Jn7wnXP9QPoe/s0yINTNNVBuGwY/vEsA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJykDBELlcUoFf5TlJ1fx6YkiY87XMwo/1mZGXR6dTJq/C0+9keU6s6egE1fhkTHT4uljsqx9SbwS7FP1fPrXTQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5b14:: with SMTP id m20mr9779552qtw.119.1599769678607; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 13:27:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <87zh5xty7h.fsf@gmail.com> <20200910164525.GR19682@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20200910164525.GR19682@mcvoy.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2020 16:27:32 -0400 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006a931505aefb67fe" Subject: Re: [TUHS] A Paper by dmr in 1984 X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000006a931505aefb67fe Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" One of the things I am most proud of as a Board Member and USENIX President was going free access during my time. It was bold and scary, but the right thing to do. Too bad, IEEE and ACM don't have the same values. A paywall is an invisible revenue stream and makes it easy for them to 'provide value,' *but they do it one other people's work*. Back when publishing was a more expensive thing for them to do, it made *some* sense. But it should have been a zero-sum/at-cost game. When it became the primary revenue stream for those organizations, is when they fell from grace. On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 12:46 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > I hate the paywalls as well. Personally, if I've written something and > someone wants it, I just give it to them. Most decent authors I've > encountered do the same. > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 06:04:34PM +0200, Edouard Klein wrote: > > PDFS: > > https://sci-hub.tw/10.1007/s12045-012-0084-x > > https://sci-hub.tw/10.1007/s12045-012-0085-9 > > > > Paywalls where the money goes to people who did nothing of significance > to > > advance the published works are the bane of scientific research. Sci hub > > is a useful crutch until we fix this mess. If you want to follow the > > letter of the law, don't follow these links. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Edouard. > > > > Nelson H. F. Beebe writes: > > > > > Dennis Ritchie's ACM Turing Award lecture paper in Communications of > > > the ACM 27(8) 758--760 (August 1984), doi:10.1145/358198.358207 was > > > reprinted in UNIX Review 3(1) 28, 118--120, 122, (January 1985) [no > > > DOI or URL yet found], and more recently, in Resonance 17(8) 810--816 > > > (August 2012) doi:10.1007/s12045-012-0091-y. > > > > > > There are two other UNIX-related papers in that issue of Resonance: > > > > > > Pramod Chandra P. Bhatt > > > UNIX: Genesis and design features > > > Resonance 17(8) 727--747 (August 2012) > > > doi:10.1007/s12045-012-0084-x > > > > > > K. Bhaskar > > > C --- Past, present, and future --- A perspective > > > Resonance 17(8) 748--758 (August 2012) > > > doi:10.1007/s12045-012-0085-9 > > > > > > I do not have access to that journal's archives from my campus > > > library, so I have not seen the articles. > > > > > > In his paper, Dennis Ritchie referred to another UNIX article that I > > > did manage to track down and record in unix.bib: > > > > > > Donald Arthur Norman > > > The Truth about UNIX > > > Datamation 27(12) 139--150 (November 1981) > > > https://tinyurl.com/yyselmxq > > > > > > The original URL is 200+ characters long, and is a freely-downloadable > > > PDF of a reprint in AUUGN volume IV number I. The PDF file has > > > searchable text. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 > - > > > - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 > - > > > - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: > beebe@math.utah.edu - > > > - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org > beebe@computer.org - > > > - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: > http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > --- > Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com > http://www.mcvoy.com/lm > --0000000000006a931505aefb67fe Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One of the things I am most proud of as=C2=A0a Board Me= mber and USENIX President was going free access during my time. It was bold= and scary, but the right thing to do.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Too bad, IEEE and ACM d= on't have the same values.=C2=A0 =C2=A0A paywall is an invisible revenu= e stream and makes it easy for them to 'provide value,' but they= do it one other people's work.=C2=A0 Back when publishing was a mo= re expensive thing for them to do, it made some sense.=C2=A0 But it = should have been a zero-sum/at-cost game.=C2=A0 When it became the primary = revenue stream for those organizations, is when they fell from grace.
=

= On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 12:46 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
I hate the paywalls as well.=C2=A0 Personally, if I'v= e written something and
someone wants it, I just give it to them.=C2=A0 Most decent authors I'v= e
encountered do the same.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2020 at 06:04:34PM +0200, Edouard Klein wrote:
> PDFS:
> https://sci-hub.tw/10.1007/s12045-012-0084-x > https://sci-hub.tw/10.1007/s12045-012-0085-9 >
> Paywalls where the money goes to people who did nothing of significanc= e to
> advance the published works are the bane of scientific research. Sci h= ub
> is a useful crutch until we fix this mess. If you want to follow the > letter of the law, don't follow these links.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Edouard.
>
> Nelson H. F. Beebe writes:
>
> > Dennis Ritchie's ACM Turing Award lecture paper in Communicat= ions of
> > the ACM 27(8) 758--760 (August 1984), doi:10.1145/358198.358207 w= as
> > reprinted in UNIX Review 3(1) 28, 118--120, 122, (January 1985) [= no
> > DOI or URL yet found], and more recently, in Resonance 17(8) 810-= -816
> > (August 2012) doi:10.1007/s12045-012-0091-y.
> >
> > There are two other UNIX-related papers in that issue of Resonanc= e:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pramod Chandra P. Bhatt
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0UNIX: Genesis and design features
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Resonance 17(8) 727--747 (August 2012)
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doi:10.1007/s12045-012-0084-x
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0K. Bhaskar
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0C --- Past, present, and future --- A perspect= ive
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Resonance 17(8) 748--758 (August 2012)
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0doi:10.1007/s12045-012-0085-9
> >
> > I do not have access to that journal's archives from my campu= s
> > library, so I have not seen the articles.
> >
> > In his paper, Dennis Ritchie referred to another UNIX article tha= t I
> > did manage to track down and record in unix.bib:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Donald Arthur Norman
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The Truth about UNIX
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Datamation 27(12) 139--150 (November 1981)
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tinyurl.com/yyselmxq
> >
> > The original URL is 200+ characters long, and is a freely-downloa= dable
> > PDF of a reprint in AUUGN volume IV number I.=C2=A0 The PDF file = has
> > searchable text.
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------= --------------
> > - Nelson H. F. Beebe=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Tel: +1 801 581 5254=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -
> > - University of Utah=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 FAX: +1 801 581 4148=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 -
> > - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Internet e-mail= : beebe@math.utah.= edu=C2=A0 -
> > - 155 S 1400 E RM 233=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0beebe@acm.org=C2=A0 beebe@computer.org -
> > - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA=C2=A0 =C2=A0 URL: htt= p://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ -
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------= --------------

--
---
Larry McVoy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 l= m at mcvo= y.com=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://www.mcvoy.com= /lm
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