From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7168 invoked from network); 21 May 2020 20:56:54 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 May 2020 20:56:54 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6E95D9C93E; Fri, 22 May 2020 06:56:52 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512CE9C909; Fri, 22 May 2020 06:56:32 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="RocJ6mj0"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E03269C909; Fri, 22 May 2020 06:56:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com (mail-qk1-f180.google.com [209.85.222.180]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 516D59C851 for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 06:56:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id f189so8705361qkd.5 for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 13:56:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ub0An3ezFR2c4UvNZC8CnmYwP9LlYx2FdK+3iZNg+a0=; b=RocJ6mj0oaeVPjM2dU7XL1CtZ5t8Fhtoun+A5pq0ct4WtcU3RIFS6S2nRTtWSgjiIN q2NPspOfD+J6IHeSrYbmINFKqi+kdHxcVCzAl1cfu1JQGTOSS84Iwy482TlSnjIXbRz2 vmcnE5rfM7P0k02WEtiL7u8yK/hiqyvfUuLzw= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ub0An3ezFR2c4UvNZC8CnmYwP9LlYx2FdK+3iZNg+a0=; b=lM8JAz3xBgNN9Gr4ozEP1vKrjk6EJjMC/MDaGiQoMA0eR9iYhhYS7QsmnfDktgK1jh X8VO0mJv7S0A46XrN0cZl/Vv0zY/uYz22LKpijo7NJCpWwoZTl4AUejTLG9R5m8snSLr DctOFqZr4Bi7l93eBPy5NoDtOcW+VQ19oUYQ90H2lHIlU/7WKNHWZz0he4qDkGTxHNwx 1fY4LnV7B/yZaK72HL039STtFByOoFYBLR1z1v8WKyggK+WPmERdkvhlxBEX0oAtrRle LPZWuTuzYOUQgUOZVpgch2B0YY8wg4BPQhviELqfuwoYPEhRCcWVS8kzJJ8GoUckP0s8 ZD8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530NNQdZqU/tAdMswVWWcMVLMnOX1JoJaUmGCzKAFFQBAg63FBI5 uz0lRIeD5AAa8JfFqQfmQbNZHaJemR4Twi3QO5hpFg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz+02FqKiOGzadP79N9Wa1QVfb0/skZO9NCghuls+SZ2E8qSwTvQUWhs9Uo0BD/k0BY8Iv6nIbySWEmdrjBPZM= X-Received: by 2002:a37:a649:: with SMTP id p70mr11939730qke.307.1590094588049; Thu, 21 May 2020 13:56:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> In-Reply-To: <8a2e9b1b-8890-a783-5b53-c8480c070f2e@telegraphics.com.au> From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 16:56:00 -0400 Message-ID: To: Toby Thain Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000148f9e05a62ebf5d" Subject: Re: [TUHS] History of popularity of C X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000148f9e05a62ebf5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:17 PM Toby Thain wrote: > - inexpensive compiler availability was not very good until ~1990 or > later, Hrrumpt The Gnu C compiler was starting to be available by the mid-1980s in alpha/beta form. rms was looking for places to start. He approached a number of folks, from Tanenbaum to some of the vendors (he knew Masscomp had written a compiler from scratch which we away the binaries gave to our customers and he called me asking if we would donate it. We had donated development hardware and I was still his contact to the Gnu project at that point). As far as I know, he ended up writing his own because he could not find one to start with. The big kickstart for rms, was that Sun hard just started to charge for its compilers, and so a lot of people were looking for a free alternative (and frankly in those days the Sun compiler was still a bit of a toy -- 20% we got over them at Masscomp was because we had a number of the folks from the DEC compiler team). It is true that the targets and the original systems it ran were more limited. The 1.0 release was before the summer of '87 (in May maybe???). The biggest issue is that it did not run on DOS until the 386 and the DOS-extenders show up. But it covered the many 68000 workstations and was often as good or better than the supplied one [which were mostly based/derived from the MIT Jack Test port of the Johnson compiler for the NU system]. > but C had been taking off like wildfire for 10 years before that > At least 15 years before. By 1975, it was a solid fixture at most Universities. > - by the time gcc was mature (by some definition, but probably before > 1990) Mature is the key word here. gcc does not really start to mature until Cygnus takes it over. But it was quite usable for the systems that targetted it. --000000000000148f9e05a62ebf5d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:1= 7 PM Toby Thain <toby@telegr= aphics.com.au> wrote:
- inexpensive compiler availability was not very good until ~1= 990 or later,
Hrrumpt=C2=A0 The Gnu C compil= er was starting to be available by the mid-1980s in alpha/beta form. rms wa= s looking for places to start.=C2=A0 He approached a number of folks, from = Tanenbaum to some of the vendors (he knew Masscomp had written a compiler f= rom scratch which we away the binaries gave to our customers and he called = me asking if we would donate it.=C2=A0 We had donated development hardware = and I was still his contact to the Gnu project at that point).

=
As far as I know, he ended up writing his own because=C2=A0he coul= d not find one to start with.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The big kickstart for rms, was th= at Sun hard just started to charge for its compilers, and so a lot of peopl= e were looking for a free alternative (and frankly in those days the Sun co= mpiler was still a bit of a toy -- 20% we got over them at Masscomp was bec= ause we had a number of the folks from the DEC compiler team).

=
It is true that the targets and the original systems it ran were m= ore limited. The 1.0 release was before the summer of '87 (in May maybe= ???).=C2=A0 The biggest issue is that it did not run on DOS until the 386 a= nd the DOS-extenders show up.=C2=A0 But it covered the many 68000 workstati= ons and was often as good or better than the supplied one [which were mostl= y based/derived from the MIT Jack Test port of the Johnson compiler for the= NU system].



=C2=A0
=
but C had been taking of= f like wildfire for 10 years before that
At least 1= 5 years before.=C2=A0 By 1975, it was a solid fixture at most Universities.=

=C2=A0
- by the time gcc was mature (by some definition, but probably before <= /span>1990)
Mature is the key word here.=C2=A0 =C2=A0g= cc does not really start to mature until =C2=A0Cygnus takes it o= ver.=C2=A0 But it was quite usable for the systems that targetted it.
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