From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 17993 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2023 19:36:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Mar 2023 19:36:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60C0B432C5; Sat, 4 Mar 2023 05:36:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x92a.google.com (mail-ua1-x92a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0A9A43287 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2023 05:36:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x92a.google.com with SMTP id f17so2398463uax.7 for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2023 11:36:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1677872163; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=EWaSkLjze4D4wbebWzl9zbdJSPqCECuWtgD8Bnu1TU0=; b=OpD+hl20iPDBhVJyNB/psY48it+OuHKg1hUHpiIotiwYTE/VAI9Ui2yJ3oE/H8vOLA P99NaAvggSipZw9B2yl5//qIrM0yEjD4LSbTyvPNxY3o9V++cWt5LgE6UXW/rmFmw3zp FJz5I+PAkRmNTx0h11o8XazhegnxHT1zA0PQQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1677872163; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=EWaSkLjze4D4wbebWzl9zbdJSPqCECuWtgD8Bnu1TU0=; b=dVHR/zB/aCSY9DtsCzNbbxny1bZ2v4b6dkaQj996Fdhe1eO6ZckHLDKiEFWB0+jZZb qAJjP2Ae8DmsdZMBE2qiNWhlWC+LhNdJ9BRXuntUait2j19rEnd4jzR6sQ5tsHWcHf+x ky97kxpxNUs8J9DG+JzdOSj0+qKWKnZCOTfAg1cg/94LCj0YApKMXxs/U5Z6IS9a7lI8 mQOYjMrd9CtgCdELN+xVzn4mwip70sMkFWCfMW1RrL3H0vXYLi58SO9ih9u2lxNc1CmY P3RUBd8cKW3QTeo48hIHqWmMRYvtY6fqDq5xsrxrjtXydoko9MEvxtpuFZdRojtBA1at HIEA== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKX4TDJaocq7WanxHjorgM7x6MDSaKDXDYaoEHiMijYlYTWDyTgX XdG3zU1aeCVTaXEB43ehFr72akSiY+7Kn1uMNW2F1/K43Q79AH61Po4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set8AtG3GQll6vD0XR5mndo89tq06PqnOrF1oL8mBdiyl6+8SuknHR5pWKqxOZQAPakP67siCdctl3HIYh6gOe3g= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:cac3:0:b0:406:6b94:c4fe with SMTP id a186-20020a1fcac3000000b004066b94c4femr2042226vkg.0.1677872163462; Fri, 03 Mar 2023 11:36:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230303182200.B951918C08D@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20230303182200.B951918C08D@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: Clem Cole Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2023 14:35:37 -0500 Message-ID: To: Noel Chiappa Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004838ff05f6040eaf" Message-ID-Hash: DX7PPDYZMG3RPBL2BNXWDO2DOFBYU7NI X-Message-ID-Hash: DX7PPDYZMG3RPBL2BNXWDO2DOFBYU7NI X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Unix v7 icheck dup problem List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000004838ff05f6040eaf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 1:22=E2=80=AFPM Noel Chiappa wrote: > > From: KenUnix > > > So is it safe to say there is no fsck or similar for v7? > Last fall, I recovered the original CMU sources to both. And I told Warren after I clean things up, I'll push them to TUHS both source and binaries but I have a number of other projects ahead of that. > > Yes, but that does't talk about '_end' not being defined if there > are missing externals, either! >From V7: https://man.cat-v.org/unix_7th/1/ld <--- this should only be a URL - let me know if Chrome/gmail is peeing on it again The symbols `_etext', `_edata' and `_end' (`etext', `edata' and `end' in C) are reserved, and if referred to, are set to the first location above the program, the first location above initialized data, and the first location above all data respectively. It is erroneous to define these symbols. Then check the section 3 man page: https://man.cat-v.org/unix_7th/3/end which describes them in more detail. > Interesting. I wonder how 'fcheck' made it from CMU to Bell? The late Ted Kowaski - the primary author. Undergrad EE UMICH (Bill Joy's roommate) and Grad EE at CMU (and my programming/lab partner originally in Dan Sieworick's grad RT course and Gordon Bell System Architecture courses). MTS and TSS had a disk scavenger from IBM for their common FS [which Ted has used at MICH and I had CMU]. icheck/ncheck/dcheck seemed less useful. A new program was started when he was an undergrad and never finished. It had more colorful name originally - fsck (pronounced as fisk BTW) was finished. I suspect the fcheck name was a USG idea. The reason why many of the error messages are upper case is that was the IBM convention which both MTS and TSS used for system programs. > I'm pretty sure the reason we liked it was not any auto-repair > capabilities, > but ISTR it was somewhat faster than icheck/dcheck. (Interesting that the= y > were > separate programs in V6; V5 seems to have only had check > CMU only ran V5 for a very short time and never in the EE Dept. I only knew of one system that ever ran it. We were a hacked V6 most of the time I was there. V7 showed up at the end, although parts of V7 and PWB leaked to us via different students who worked at Bell (that story was similar at many sites). > > which contained the functionality of both. I wonder why they were split? > Space? > Table space to support larger disk was always a huge problem. Since we mostly ran UNIX on 11/40 class systems, it had to be able to run on non-I/D (45 class) machines. A lot of creativity was used to keep it small. It was fine for RK05s and RP03s but Ted's temp space hack was done when the first RP04-like disk showed up - it was an IBM disk on an aftermarket Unibus controller made to look like an RP in EE and then Dan Klein and I got the very low serial # RK07 at Mellon Institute and that was my first Unix driver which we hacked together one weekend. =E1=90=A7 --0000000000004838ff05f6040eaf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 1:22= =E2=80=AFPM Noel Chiappa <jnc= @mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > From: KenUnix

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > So is it safe to say there is no fsck or similar for v7?=
Last fall, I recovered the original CMU sources t= o both. And I told Warren after I clean things up, I'll push them to TU= HS both source and binaries but I have a number of other projects ahead of = that.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

Yes, but that does't talk about '_end' not being defined if the= re
are missing externals, either!
From V7: https://man.cat-v.org/unix_7th/1/ld= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<--- this should only=C2=A0be a URL - let me know if= Chrome/gmail is peeing on it again
Th=
e symbols `_etext', `_edata' and `_end' (`etext', `edata=
9;
          and `end' in C) are reserved, and if referred to, are set to
          the first location above the program, the first location
          above initialized data, and the first location above all
          data respectively.  It is erroneous to define these symbols.
Then check the section 3 man page:=C2=A0https://man.cat-v.org/unix_7th/3/end which desc= ribes=C2=A0them in more detail.

=C2=A0
Interesting. I wonder how 'fcheck' made it from CMU to Bell?
The late Ted Kowaski - the primary author. Undergrad EE UMI= CH (Bill Joy's roommate) and Grad EE at CMU (and my programming/lab par= tner originally in Dan Sieworick's grad RT course and Gordon Bell Syste= m Architecture courses).=C2=A0MTS and TSS had a disk scavenger from IBM for their common= FS [which Ted has used at MICH and I had CMU].=C2=A0 icheck/ncheck<= span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">/dcheck=C2=A0seemed less useful.
A new program was started when he was an undergrad and = never finished.

It had more = colorful name originally=C2=A0- fsck (pronounced as fisk BTW) was finished.= =C2=A0 I suspect the fcheck name was a USG idea.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The reason wh= y many of the error messages are upper case is that was the IBM convention = which both MTS and TSS used for system programs.
=C2=A0
I'm pre= tty sure the reason we liked it was not any auto-repair capabilities,
but ISTR it was somewhat faster than icheck/dcheck. (Interesting that they = were
separate programs in V6; V5 seems to have only had check
CMU only ran V5 for a very short time and never in the EE Dept.=C2= =A0 I only knew of one system that ever ran it.=C2=A0 We were a hacked V6 m= ost of the time I was there.=C2=A0 V7 showed up at the end, although parts = of V7 and PWB leaked to us via different students who worked at Bell (that = story was similar at many sites).
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
which contained the functionality of both. I wonder why they were split? Space?
Table space to support larger disk= was always a huge=C2=A0problem. Since we mostly ran UNIX on 11/40 class sy= stems, it had to be able to run on non-I/D (45 class) machines. A lot of cr= eativity was used to keep it small.=C2=A0 It was fine for RK05s and RP03s b= ut Ted's temp space hack was done when the first RP04-like disk showed = up - it was an IBM disk on an aftermarket Unibus controller made to look li= ke an RP in EE and then Dan Klein and I got the very low serial # RK07=C2=A0at Mellon Institute and that was my first Unix driver which we = hacked together one weekend.
3D""=E1=90=A7 --0000000000004838ff05f6040eaf--