From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,LOTS_OF_MONEY,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 13863 invoked from network); 19 Dec 2023 20:24:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Dec 2023 20:24:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00A5B42441; Wed, 20 Dec 2023 06:24:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x92c.google.com (mail-ua1-x92c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::92c]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE32B4105A for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2023 06:24:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x92c.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7c51d5e6184so1442949241.2 for ; Tue, 19 Dec 2023 12:24:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1703017475; x=1703622275; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6t7PFd7GClWOCqTyMGa7abEnIN2qkFNd5pOCCJuCPvA=; b=ftNHiotYjxp3+af8qG3j6SqVdwI+4Lgz4GEQ0yxrrxF8BeuNIfZ/4kb4s1q12HWuBp ZdF2+blKUt2g35pxJ6MuY5QRpxXh7SZ5YepDzE/a1ah770oRVFUETFF8hSv6GQbYgikO MAnchzmeNebeANlFtVmnb6G0XDB5VNGJcNTGY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1703017475; x=1703622275; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6t7PFd7GClWOCqTyMGa7abEnIN2qkFNd5pOCCJuCPvA=; b=c21tmPlIc12nZdL0iVJVzPUv1bid9ajVQwp4BNgjAuGW2FwZ+orpqMz2dWv0uXgmgH 9pcBmnWCM21MNSyaemby+dYmuPftiN4xreIwzwGavtDC+pvTZ1soAVj4wJwfzFE42Ki/ aa6bt8E+p6xZ/+jIfllkh1po3g6mZDDwzyydYsFVRozmExlOTmm3sETjIPcjMVvFwsI+ aH5rUeEpj0Kp9j9WSmUlF59aOjKU9yGgZQ1h+pAsmBa13TSK81rTXG5wg8Q02uAHf6ZQ BB7EFFC9foLujL+rIL/IiC66YUybnGEEPjagxkbeCWFOz4r2MlJf3e2bkiGHRZqe3/9t SfuA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywd1thkU+MCwe2B1JguEsey+itK68iEnV0uBPUXR4QnV9iZQ46i NfRWoyEGz0AZSFC2dv6eaNWjO2Fq7FV5X8AduO25RA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG8d0/x7i7Y/BKfL2dRv1MHd9aZkY5pnbluCLw3fzDN7Yt/NvzWRogPVI8j8RY6lQANLAujrjYzf0OIoAr6sCE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6122:3699:b0:4b6:d5f1:7c8a with SMTP id ec25-20020a056122369900b004b6d5f17c8amr2242898vkb.4.1703017475435; Tue, 19 Dec 2023 12:24:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <93ef58b9-b058-4463-b0e6-d2f2f2bf5a55@loomcom.com> <76f6ae7e-20e1-41fa-9fe4-cc22015411bf@mhorton.net> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2023 15:23:57 -0500 Message-ID: To: Tom Lyon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ab98ea060ce2a756" Message-ID-Hash: GJT5UMWIBC5KLVKWX6O54ZMRUNCGJ4D4 X-Message-ID-Hash: GJT5UMWIBC5KLVKWX6O54ZMRUNCGJ4D4 X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Compatibility question List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000ab98ea060ce2a756 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom smiled while reading that man page: "It is assumed that the TN print train is being used." I have to wonder how many younger programmers know what a print train is, much less what it looked like (or how heavy they were when you changed them). Also, with the loss of the use of real lineprinters, you have to wonder if those same folks understand why the asa(1) program that POSIX.2 requires is there (although IIRC later *.2 revisions moved it to the "FORTRAN Runtime Utilities" as an option POSX2_FORT_RUN - but we had it there in the original draft). Paul -- you left out the other "feature" -- the noise, which was still deafening even with a model N1 and its cover. I equate four sounds to my early computing days: the ASR33 printing, a 1403 printing, a 1402 reading card, and finally, the constant fan noise in the machine room, plus the smell of light machine oil [definitely in a terminal room of ASR33s]. =E1=90=A7 =E1=90=A7 On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 1:07=E2=80=AFPM Tom Lyon wrote: > Yes, Amdahl UTS supported the 1403 from earliest days. > There even seem to be some mods to 'tbl' to support it. > > On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 9:40=E2=80=AFAM Paul Winalski > wrote: > >> On 12/18/23, Dave Horsfall wrote: >> > On Mon, 18 Dec 2023, Paul Winalski wrote: >> > >> >> The 132-character screen width was for displaying files originally >> >> formatted to be printed on a line printer. Compiler listings and >> linker >> >> maps, for example. >> > >> > Such as the mighty 1403 :-) >> > >> > Hint: never leave your cup of coffee on top of it, as the lid will ope= n >> > automatically when it runs out of paper... >> >> The 1403 was the best line printer ever made. It was originally the >> printer for the IBM 1400 second-generation (discrete transistor-based) >> computer. It continued to be the line printer for S/360. The deluxe >> model, the IBM 1403 N1, had a power cover that could be operated under >> computer control. The OS/360 operating system would raise the >> printer's cover if an error condition occurred, such as out of paper >> or a paper jam. This was a very useful feature in large data centers >> where there were several line printers, to indicate which printer had >> a problem. >> >> The cover of a 1403 N1 also provided a convenient and attractive flat >> surface on which to place things. But a dangerous one. Many a card >> deck magtape reel, coffee cup, or pizza box has been unceremoniously >> dumped on the floor. >> >> When our shop upgraded from a S/360 model 25 to a S/370 model 125, our >> 1403 was replaced by a 3203 line printer. It was not as good as the >> 1401 had been. >> >> There was a business in Massachusetts in the 1980s that bought and >> sold old IBM computer gear. A company asked them for a quote on their >> IBM 1400 system (1401 processor, 1402 card read/punch, 1403 printer). >> They were offered $18,000 for the whole system, or $15,000 for the >> 1403 printer alone. That's how valued those printers were. >> >> To bring this closer on-topic, was there Unix support for the IBM 1403? >> >> -Paul W. >> > --000000000000ab98ea060ce2a756 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tom smiled while reading= =C2=A0that man page: "It is assumed that the TN print train is being used."<= /div>
I have to wonder how many younger programmers know what a print t= rain is, much less what it looked like=C2=A0(or how heavy they were when yo= u changed=C2=A0them).=C2=A0 Also, with the loss of the use of real lineprin= ters, you have to wonder if those same folks understand why the asa(1) program that POSIX.2 requires is there (althou= gh IIRC later *.2 revisions moved it to the "FORTRAN Runtime Utilities= " as an option POSX2= _FORT_RUN - but w= e had it there in the original draft).

Paul -- you left out the other "feature" -- the noise, which w= as still deafening even with a model N1 and its cover.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I equate four sounds to my early computing d= ays: the ASR33 printing, a 1403 printing, a 1402 reading card, and finally,= the constant fan noise in the machine room, plus the smell of light machin= e oil [definitely in a terminal room of ASR33s].
3D""=E1=90=A7
=E1=90=A7

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 1:07=E2=80=AFPM= Tom Lyon <pugs78@= gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, Amdahl UTS supported the 1403 from earlies= t days.
There even seem to be some mods to 'tbl' to support it.=

On Tue, Dec 19, 2023 at 9:40=E2=80=AFAM Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
On= 12/18/23, Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2023, Paul Winalski wrote:
>
>> The 132-character screen width was for displaying files originally=
>> formatted to be printed on a line printer.=C2=A0 Compiler listings= and linker
>> maps, for example.
>
> Such as the mighty 1403 :-)
>
> Hint: never leave your cup of coffee on top of it, as the lid will ope= n
> automatically when it runs out of paper...

The 1403 was the best line printer ever made.=C2=A0 It was originally the printer for the IBM 1400 second-generation (discrete transistor-based)
computer.=C2=A0 It continued to be the line printer for S/360.=C2=A0 The de= luxe
model, the IBM 1403 N1, had a power cover that could be operated under
computer control.=C2=A0 The OS/360 operating system would raise the
printer's cover if an error condition occurred, such as out of paper or a paper jam.=C2=A0 This was a very useful feature in large data centers<= br> where there were several line printers, to indicate which printer had
a problem.

The cover of a 1403 N1 also provided a convenient and attractive flat
surface on which to place things.=C2=A0 But a dangerous one.=C2=A0 Many a c= ard
deck magtape reel, coffee cup, or pizza box has been unceremoniously
dumped on the floor.

When our shop upgraded from a S/360 model 25 to a S/370 model 125, our
1403 was replaced by a 3203 line printer.=C2=A0 It was not as good as the 1401 had been.

There was a business in Massachusetts in the 1980s that bought and
sold old IBM computer gear.=C2=A0 A company asked them for a quote on their=
IBM 1400 system (1401 processor, 1402 card read/punch, 1403 printer).
They were offered $18,000 for the whole system, or $15,000 for the
1403 printer alone.=C2=A0 That's how valued those printers were.

To bring this closer on-topic, was there Unix support for the IBM 1403?

-Paul W.
--000000000000ab98ea060ce2a756--