From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 80e55563 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 13:30:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 65DA59BB86; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 23:30:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56C1294802; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 23:29:51 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="fEasd6XV"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 33E9294792; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 23:28:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f49.google.com (mail-wr1-f49.google.com [209.85.221.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2107947B9 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 23:28:43 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f49.google.com with SMTP id o18so2448929wrv.13 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 06:28:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=lECuR3VJGbdwnLgWyxiX8j0sQsQijYuphBCX11UGv0U=; b=fEasd6XV7V9nmpT4+f1+TrMdyE/LzSqfYbskk/k/kvn/vKGA3rDzOm3El4j2lulxEa o935ax4QIQ4Spn3pZ+yH1ECK8GIWPXI+0zjCquDyB+3JhFksUihCcApNCR17UTS8YHKu xDEOCLbz/h9HD098mTjIyXNjaCHFQ3EbW5aMY= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lECuR3VJGbdwnLgWyxiX8j0sQsQijYuphBCX11UGv0U=; b=BhNKZF/OG1bk+p9Vx/X29AUvgeL2ND0C/Zb+IsPRL7hbbu7wyw0LKoNZ82mfqtUD4C 75tLCQjSOd/GJ+thNKaooZhS/k7mmrE8LpKSr5HEERyWEPB1YckWOiTAmMf4kdssVeEQ nRzI8mOvc0dDFCOuzfzUbhfLXutndAKJBavooqS5EWOMbsK0Rv8z6pUrVVyv3uQXghdp EZyxcGR0E734oaDTC+dwlE9373TV2GyNt/Fo+arMoR5fIY2Jp4BOgVrJOwiPPZof9Cng 61uSinKzDblBy4BVJpEf88Cwb7CYUviQLf0auKz6xNWJ3aCWpAs5UWY5W8IPUgotFJXy 5vXg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVmdzf5hYxT+TcEXTrK58B2bGt8rFlA5hoy+rCNsorIApBMqz19 wypblMJJg2PtWEk6XP1nL4NMOFB72sO7JAFlj58RGg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzqb9ouDJKiV4txCfPkpvv0zxhqf/B4Pl7jdLbLFTUpRjGO3+JK5gA0B8n+0owXkQLP9P0BxeLqSBPRQB1gzJU= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:670c:: with SMTP id o12mr3126803wru.103.1569504521972; Thu, 26 Sep 2019 06:28:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201909241945.x8OJjTCX032294@skeeve.com> <7wo8z7zj96.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <0c66d8e5-ef8b-4682-b8a0-281c5c7c0359@PU1APC01FT115.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com> <7wblv7zid0.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <201909260627.x8Q6RYGq017933@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <201909260627.x8Q6RYGq017933@freefriends.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2019 09:28:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: Aharon Robbins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000081858c059374bf89" Subject: [TUHS] [COFF] [was TUHS] Pr1me and GT-SWT X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Computer Old Farts Followers Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000081858c059374bf89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" At the risk of this drifting, it probably should move over to the COFF mailing list, which I have CC'ed. I'll do this one last one here so people not yet on COFF that want to follow up can see it. On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:27 AM wrote: > It was bizarre and ugly. The only thing that made it anywhere > near usable were the Software Tools. > Amen... (more in a minute) > > There's a reason Prime died pretty quickly once Unix started to > spread. The architecture also was strange; the characters used > mark parity (8th bit always on). > Yeah, it was an interesting box. Fast and cost-effective for its time and an excellent Fortran system which why they did as well as they did. > > My 2 cents. > > Arnold > You probably know this but you folks had a huge influence on the Pr1mates. So much so when Bill P, Paul L, and Michael S. left Pr1me to create Apollo, the used your version of the SWT as their first command system for Aegis (*a.k.a.* DOMAIN OS). They did not quite get it that they needed a real UNIX, so they roped tjt and myself from Masscomp went we all formed Belmont (*a.k.a.* Stellar in a later renaming). But they did recognize it was useful and people wanted to use that style of interface, not something dreamed up specific to that machine. I remember trying to explain to Bill the difference - he's a vision guy, but primarily a hardware type, although one of the most amazing people I have ever known. IMO: Leach never really understood the Unix ideas of being simple (which is one of the reasons why Windows has that forsaken registry sin from Aegis, he brought it with him from Apollo to MSFT). I used to argue with him about it in the 1980s (he hated/thought ASCII text files were terrible and he should control everything in some framework or privileged API). --00000000000081858c059374bf89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At the risk of this drifting, it proba= bly should move over to the COFF mailing list, which I have CC'ed.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0I'll do this one last one here so people not yet on COFF that= want to follow up can see it.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 2:27 AM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
It was bizarre and ugly.= =C2=A0 The only thing that made it anywhere
near usable were the Software Tools.
Amen...=C2=A0 (more in a minute)

There's a reason Prime died pretty quickly once Unix started to
spread.=C2=A0 The architecture also was strange; the characters used
mark parity (8th bit always on).
Yeah, it was an i= nteresting box.=C2=A0 Fast and cost-effective for its time and an excellent= Fortran system which why they did as well as they did.

My 2 cents.

Arnold
You probably know this but you folks had a = huge influence on the Pr1mates.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So much so when Bill P, Paul L,= and Michael S. left Pr1me to create Apollo, the used your version of the S= WT as their first command system for Aegis (a.k.a. DOMAIN OS).=C2=A0=C2=A0 They did not quite get it that they needed a real UNIX, s= o they roped tjt and myself from Masscomp went we all formed Belmont (a.= k.a. Stellar in a later renaming).=C2=A0 But they did recognize it was = useful and people wanted to use that style of interface, not something drea= med up specific to that machine.

I remember trying to explain to Bill the difference - he's a visio= n guy, but primarily a hardware type, although one of the most amazing peop= le I have ever known.=C2=A0 IMO: Leach never really understood the Unix ide= as of being simple (which is one of the reasons why Windows has that forsak= en=C2=A0registry sin from Aegis, he brought it with him from Apollo to MSFT= ).=C2=A0 =C2=A0I used to argue with him about it in the 1980s (he hated/tho= ught ASCII text files were terrible and he should control everything in som= e framework or privileged API).=C2=A0
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