From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 8f99e494 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 16:48:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 77F949B964; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 02:48:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9D669B92B; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 02:48:19 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="Hf3bDscN"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E95819B92B; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 02:48:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f169.google.com (mail-qk1-f169.google.com [209.85.222.169]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5067E9B92A for ; Tue, 18 Feb 2020 02:48:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f169.google.com with SMTP id c188so16765782qkg.4 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 08:48:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LXUAlwS0uzS4/hGs5tfdmG15wttic7KjItVpsny5oL4=; b=Hf3bDscNUryYu1MzMFUwnSd92Hrx73SfJ6SlxrT6/pamUAaQoqkQ8XqYc6eqAT1wyq uEnGU/vVs9haQikbRpGO5ci8KDcsEvDDU8mxJrj9s9zSnIDW1ljTWxfJpGA5TRkKY38r s1S1oDCQ1zw2Cd8WqOI7A17oi5G0TXH4Nfdr8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LXUAlwS0uzS4/hGs5tfdmG15wttic7KjItVpsny5oL4=; b=n2+jhzKnIyqmrH+N+a/M9qfCmYHDqyurOoHq7SwXMKTWD6Qi2/WMV0Bw/yHHT94oLK 0n4ljzgJq6gOYvNGWOt72TDWesFIG6Ag4WMeWgoN7wFt1piRA9o/r4JBrW2TPhF2wkDV r5gpOT8v3raKlm+cGlYdG0KkYVhb1RFHrVQgGpzbQ1H6YRr2fbM+WS0T/4aHXn3T9xx8 45NUTtkLU0JDDZAFyOgFV25Fm5aZP9bRwfWUxxRRKHEljHWyvUVoVzRAj2CkOi6OD+Cj YR4aSDS2FScQQP1BR2E1hVmWYK17p9c+fRlXTMagCkSdLshi4uKE5Gp67X/bLHl0zMJl pI+g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXkIraPyuKFMti/yn7DYDwp0oZpY4NY8N8cdmImb7HxhLP7LWqi zKzg/oFzoWAPgWC9wOutyEIBLrCTaO1lJNcf5gqGpQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzvXjX7TYPJ2ktQmKtjp03Am2vUTyrK/rbzgot3ZPBiXxudag1wSN/OefLZu5pIPuOpl7viajkb7pHy+3FZ2BQ= X-Received: by 2002:a37:a254:: with SMTP id l81mr14559007qke.133.1581958094241; Mon, 17 Feb 2020 08:48:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202002171520.01HFKqKi026749@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> In-Reply-To: <202002171520.01HFKqKi026749@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 11:47:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: Doug McIlroy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000041d127059ec852f2" Subject: Re: [TUHS] man Macro Package and pdfmark X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000041d127059ec852f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:22 AM Doug McIlroy wrote= : > > *all* the stuff? Please don't do that literally. The garrulity > quotient of info pages dwarfs even that of the most excessive > modern man pages. =F0=9F=98=82 But I appplaud the intent to assure man pages are complete. > The problem is that too many of the gnu style man pages are just written in the key of -> "see figure one " as documents telling you to go to info (which I find maddening). [I find it similar to ITS not accepting a BS as the correction character, but instead picking it up and then telling you to use DEL -- the designers know what you want, sigh]. I'd like simple man pages that are reasonable references. And then get the rest of the needed documentation out info and the weird hyper texting stuff into a paper (so you can read it linearly - the way we were taught as children). I loved the simple prose in the papers that usually accompanied the traditional UNIX programs/tools. I read them and reread them as I learned to use the features and concepts provided by the more complicated tools. After that, the simple man pages were more than sufficient to remind me of the specifics I needed to use some features I did not use every day. Clem One of my complaints with info is that as a format, it leads to documents that does neither well. They tend not to be reference documents like man pages as you point out, but they are moisty often than not, particularly good explanations either. Sigh... --00000000000041d127059ec852f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 10:2= 2 AM Doug McIlroy <doug@cs.dart= mouth.edu> wrote:

*all* the stuff? Please don't do that literally. The gar= rulity
quotient of info pages dwarfs even that of the most excessive
modern man pages.

=F0=9F=98=82=C2=A0
<= div>
But I appp= laud the intent to assure man pages are complete.
The problem is that too many of the gnu style man pages are just= written in the key of -> "see figure one" as documents telling you to = go to info (which I find maddening).=C2=A0 [I find it similar to ITS not ac= cepting a BS as the correction character, but instead picking it up and the= n telling you to use DEL -- the designers know what you want, sigh].=

I'd like simple man pages that= are reasonable references.=C2=A0And then get the rest of the ne= eded documentation out info and the weird hyper texting stuff into a paper = (so you can read it linearly - the way we were taught as children).=C2=A0 = =C2=A0I loved the simple prose in the papers that usually accompanied the t= raditional UNIX programs/tools.=C2=A0 I read them and reread them as I lear= ned to use the features and concepts provided by the more complicated tools= .=C2=A0 After that, the simple man pages were more than sufficient to remin= d me of the specifics I needed =C2=A0to use some features I did = not use every day.

Clem

<= div>
One of my complaints with info is that as= a format, it leads to documents that does neither well.=C2=A0 They tend no= t to be reference documents like man pages as you point out, but they are m= oisty=C2=A0often than not, particularly good explanations either. Sigh...
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