From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26338 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2021 17:25:24 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 24 Oct 2021 17:25:24 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B1F349CC77; Mon, 25 Oct 2021 03:25:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 408A39CB73; Mon, 25 Oct 2021 03:25:02 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="FSFJq/Jl"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9ED959CB73; Mon, 25 Oct 2021 03:25:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f47.google.com (mail-qv1-f47.google.com [209.85.219.47]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04B4F9BDA4 for ; Mon, 25 Oct 2021 03:25:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f47.google.com with SMTP id gh1so5766571qvb.8 for ; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:24:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tQFQ/3GGMVusDfjmoPQ+dluCHGXFmB6EhzZPz/a1M+I=; b=FSFJq/JlcsGaeh9GSqsG2JB31hlf22X2FJa4our+Yqs6/m7yBBnFn2lOJsI4QiwYra 605ytDIh/fvDZCJ3x4OVa7yA+liyTv7IqQKFB15Njh2xZ6PUq9ArkQA7rVihH8Mzxm0J 5FU1j+tajmDGh9bFL1Kc+b4lVYfOXUL/26QY4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tQFQ/3GGMVusDfjmoPQ+dluCHGXFmB6EhzZPz/a1M+I=; b=16hEXCZpva8ZQ8UUuEx83M88B4ASaOA48WJ4paFcZD/hsBwfdkT2ZGjWpVuUSeOIye j23FIPZk8bBixMtduIJfE8SXx2TogHT3QC0bN2hMspJXRUgScZsn6vZ8AWkZdgW1gcU5 jdmucQwSRXR/U7CY8/kNCBXFxK4+Cl7DnQNDmrLEJPGsSIhbWxfnfWbjp3DKkRAPsv4j odPyF/VYB9APGlTL/P2P2lYB7Mubobijsp4+ZCsUMEXt9QEfTXivVmYNVaz1Fd41/k4C kbCMhqbDXNcrndB4BoaaIMy4QNYdp7/vtwjvWoDWoyHws34PSoWXUnrBl1/cXKEtkIpA HeMw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530WwwMUzFtY0VeC8mCZuMp6f2RAiet5CCcTCjpAegmxT31uX0nc rR6VbeWJoGPfSWDmVz0BSaXx6DgvNxCHv3JxN9rKtg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwFEsSlerAIEMwvhr0GZrcqO/Fhj7/4UDqk3sKwlPC0aEAw54FAQUaxj8IHbrw+o5JAuEhe+k4duvOkQGIdEZ4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:194b:: with SMTP id q11mr11064439qvk.38.1635096298716; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 10:24:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7wtuh6e6u6.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> In-Reply-To: <7wtuh6e6u6.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 13:24:34 -0400 Message-ID: To: Lars Brinkhoff Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000f148605cf1c8646" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Unix NCP protocol stack for ARPANET X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000000f148605cf1c8646 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 12:57 PM Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > Has any other NCP implementation for Unix survived? From old host > tables I think there may have been some VAXen online before the switch > to TCP/IP. > Hmmm... I find that interesting because Stan Smith and I wrote the original IP/TCP for the VAX in 1979/1980 when we were at Tektronix(in BLISS-32, BTW -- which I gave back to CMU, and CMU added mailer and eventual DNS support, and then distributed it as the Tek-CMU TCP/IP - DEC eventually used it to start their in-house effort - I have that code on 9-track and may have it on a CD somewhere). When Stan and I started that work, I had looked everywhere I could think to find an NCP implementation, and never found one. Our Vax was connected to the Teklabs 11/70 running V7 and the 3Com UNET stack that Bruce Bordan and crew wrote. The reason was that IMP's ports were a rare commodity and free ones almost non-existent. So when Vaxen started to roll out, the IMPs were usually filed with PDP-10s at the research sites. Vaxen also tended to have Xerox 3M Ethernet boards. I also don't know of anyone connecting a DR-11B to an 1822 for a Vax - could have been done, but I don't know of one. At both CMU and UCB, we used Xerox boards until the real ones from 3Com, Interlan and DEC showed up and that was not until 1981-82 and the IP transition has already begun. You tell me, but I was under the impression, that you folks at MIT did a ChaosNet interface, IIRC, so there may have been some sort of conversion on your LAN, but I really doubt there was a real NCP running. FYI: CMU had Vax serial #1, and it was never on the ARPAnet. It was in the same machine room as the IBM 360s, PDP-20s, and Univac 1108, not the CS PDP-10s where the IMP was. My guess is that people had Vaxen assigned in the host tables, but never connected for lack of an NCP implementation. And until the Tek stack for VMS and the BBN stack for 4.1 BSD, I don't think there were any Vaxen yet on either the NCP based ARPAnet much less the later IP-based one. Clem =E1=90=A7 =E1=90=A7 --0000000000000f148605cf1c8646 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On S= un, Oct 24, 2021 at 12:57 PM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
Has= any other NCP implementation for Unix survived?=C2=A0 From old host
tables I think there may have been some VAXen online before the switch
to TCP/IP.
Hmmm...= I find that interesting because=C2=A0 Stan Smith and I wrote the original = IP/TCP for the VAX in 1979/1980 when we were at Tektronix(in BLISS-32, BTW = -- which I gave back to CMU, and CMU added mailer and eventual DNS support,= and then distributed it as the Tek-CMU TCP/IP - DEC eventually used it to = start their in-house effort - I have that code on 9-track and may have it o= n a CD somewhere).=C2=A0 =C2=A0When Stan and I started that work, I had loo= ked everywhere I could think to find an NCP implementation, and never found= =C2=A0one.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Our=C2=A0Vax was connected to the Teklabs 11/70 runn= ing V7 and the 3Com UNET stack that Bruce Bordan and crew wrote.

= The reason was that IMP's ports were a rare com= modity and free ones almost non-existent.=C2=A0 So when Vaxen started to ro= ll out, the IMPs were usually=C2=A0filed with PDP-10s at the research sites= .=C2=A0 =C2=A0Vaxen also tended to have Xerox 3M Ethernet boards.=C2=A0 I a= lso don't know of anyone connecting a DR-11B to an 1822 for a Vax - cou= ld have been done, but I don't know of one.=C2=A0 =C2=A0At both CMU and= UCB, we used Xerox boards until the real ones from 3Com, Interlan and DEC = showed up and that was not until 1981-82 and the IP transition has already = begun.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

You tell me, bu= t I was under the impression, that you folks at MIT did a ChaosNet interfac= e, IIRC, so there may have been some sort of conversion on your LAN, but I = really doubt there was a real NCP running.

FYI: CMU had Vax serial #1, and it was never on the ARPAnet.=C2=A0 It was= in the same machine room as the IBM 360s, PDP-20s, and Univac 1108, not th= e CS PDP-10s where the IMP was.

My gues= s is that people had Vaxen assigned in the host tables, but never connected= for lack of an NCP implementation.=C2=A0 And until the Tek stack for VMS a= nd the BBN stack for 4.1 BSD, I don't think there were any Vaxen yet on= either the NCP based ARPAnet much less the later IP-based one.

<= font color=3D"#0000ff">Clem
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