From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: (qmail 23127 invoked from network); 3 May 2020 16:14:15 -0000 Received-SPF: pass (minnie.tuhs.org: domain of minnie.tuhs.org designates 45.79.103.53 as permitted sender) receiver=inbox.vuxu.org; client-ip=45.79.103.53 envelope-from= Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 May 2020 16:14:15 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 621709C8BE; Mon, 4 May 2020 02:14:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FD69B934; Mon, 4 May 2020 02:13:41 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="inrfmNhG"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 23D759B934; Mon, 4 May 2020 02:13:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f174.google.com (mail-qk1-f174.google.com [209.85.222.174]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BD6394621 for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 02:13:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f174.google.com with SMTP id g185so647680qke.7 for ; Sun, 03 May 2020 09:13:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2tZtYIMEDXfh2R4jU4wKTL97GElzzNCJ4BSQCH1bU2U=; b=inrfmNhGmrnhyIsVeWghMHsbp6BR7sLLh3cNzalmy2FxhaNgbP9IuaSozpvKFKgwAu 29U+NjX+T7FxY2g5FYNqVMFTh5ZWoNJGTJBZgg/f0RBZu2W97BTVFyX7oL6WY6H4qObj 2VP7Y09hH6MLiAMYCpa06PXNfBQ7udAWm1pz4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2tZtYIMEDXfh2R4jU4wKTL97GElzzNCJ4BSQCH1bU2U=; b=fXUZ/nrZNLy8GFW4eRUVcWSeX+mh3/WbXNOBq1VPlqp46CVd3wTOMAZTqrrrxAEnk2 cvnULgheoGmG38x7oUYLYFvmWRooT6gg/xh0YXWU85bDROCy4WceLfTPo1+jQscsFPEZ S/LOab76Fe21VZtlDTFGbGtsOUi8nVhCv+feIL7p3/cOJhfAFDftRF+/jooXaCqu+FkW iPcoeQUQIKE2p886W94NtunztMlTR+vNOIB6rVKbYUEGXr5JLynmY6iuP15dQKYVERfJ hChCc50qt/xOcfiNlkA9qTee3Rc/+r4tCcGywm1ohVwRJiosZx86tSeN56GKE6voPSCv 35VQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYY6KJ03dHIN6ZStpSKOcCplrbTtrWiFlgYk4gfqM4qA89OyhKd fDUzux8lukYb9zQ1amfUzY0tCtkoF0IV0Yi72bGGrg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIgmu6qA/d/7hWSmX7wUynVYhUQ8AfpJhQaDdgLQMQF64ygBHfksS5qNlJNHKlLymhvHWPQiCH1iwhI/0q+Q6A= X-Received: by 2002:a37:a649:: with SMTP id p70mr10843519qke.307.1588522415450; Sun, 03 May 2020 09:13:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2F4C604D-F01C-4A82-948A-7E77093B48A1@planet.nl> <21F16C75-62AB-422A-A43F-981407E11434@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: <21F16C75-62AB-422A-A43F-981407E11434@planet.nl> From: Clem Cole Date: Sun, 3 May 2020 12:13:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004a831505a4c0b2f9" Subject: Re: [TUHS] SDB debugger X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000004a831505a4c0b2f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 4:16 PM Paul Ruizendaal wrote: > The dbx debugger appears to stand on the shoulders of sdb, and gdb on the > shoulders of dbx. > Mumble ... It's true rms started with dbx and peed on it in their usually way - similar to the Gosling EMACS to GnuEMACS story. But Mark wrote DBX from scratch, although I would be surprised if looked at how adb and sdb handled the symbol table and could have lifted that code from their. If I remember discussions with him about it, his interface model was really more VMS debugger more than sdb. As I said, I really don't remember anyone at UCB in those days using sdb. At the time, there was a huge push (mostly from the Stanford crew) to make VMS the Arpa standard system replacing the PDP-10, TOPS, Tenex, ITS, et al. Besides the performance argument (hence the 4.1 FASTVAX work), one of the arguments from the pro-VMS side was the language toolchain, including comments that UNIX did not have a debugger in the same vein as VMS (and also that the Fortran system was considered pretty weak). When he was still at UCB, Mark had tried to make sure dbx worked with both C and Fortran (i.e. at the beginning of the project I did some testing for him because I was working on a large array processor in the CAD group, that needed to compile EE CAD suite which at that point was heavily dominated by Fortran codes). The whole BSD UNIX Fortran was not great and I know when Masscomp built their debugger, they started with dbx and had to gut the multiple language support (thus rewriting much of the Fortran & Pascal support); but the person that did it, had been part of DEC's TLG team previously and had a direct knowledge of how the DEC debugger actually handled multiple languages. BTW the time, I personally did not really care, as long as C support worked. Paul W -- do you remember if DEC TLG did a version of dbx for Ultrix (Leslie might remember)? FWIW: I know that DEC had a number of different debugger projects so on the UNIX side over the years, and I really don't remember what was done for the VAX, as I was not there at the time. By MIPS/Alpha in the mid-late 90's there was a whole new debugger stream that had been developed at part of GEM, but there was another one that came from MIPs too which was based on dbx. Clem --0000000000004a831505a4c0b2f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 4:16 = PM Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl&g= t; wrote:
The dbx debugger appears to stand on the shoulders of sdb, and gdb on the s= houlders of dbx.
Mumble ...=C2=A0 =C2=A0It's= true rms started with dbx and peed on it in their usually=C2=A0way - simil= ar to the Gosling EMACS to GnuEMACS story.

=
But=C2=A0 Mark wrote DBX from scratch, although I would be s= urprised if looked at how adb and sdb handled the symbol table and could ha= ve lifted that code from their.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If I remember discussions with = him about it, his interface model was really more VMS debugger more than sd= b.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As I said, I really don't remember anyone at UCB in thos= e days using sdb.

At the tim= e, there was a huge push (mostly from the Stanford crew) to make VMS the Ar= pa standard system replacing the PDP-10, TOPS, Tenex, ITS, et al.=C2=A0 Bes= ides the performance argument (hence the 4.1 FASTVAX work), one of the argu= ments from the pro-VMS side was the language toolchain, including comments = that UNIX did not have a debugger in the same vein as VMS (and also that th= e Fortran system was considered pretty weak).=C2=A0=C2=A0
=
When he was still at UCB, Mark had tried to m= ake sure dbx worked with both C and Fortran (i.e. at the beginning of the p= roject I did some testing for him because I was working on a large array pr= ocessor in the CAD group, that needed to compile EE CAD suite which at that= point was heavily dominated by Fortran codes).=C2=A0 The whole BSD UNIX Fo= rtran was not great and I know when Masscomp built their debugger, they sta= rted with dbx and had to gut the multiple language support (thus rewriting = much of the Fortran & Pascal support); but the=C2=A0person that did it,= had been part of DEC's TLG team previously and had a direct knowledge = of how the DEC debugger actually handled multiple languages.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 B= TW the time, I personally did not really care, as long as C support worked.=

Paul W -- do you remember if= DEC TLG did a version of dbx for Ultrix (Leslie might remember)?=C2=A0 FWI= W: I know that DEC had a number of different debugger projects so on the UN= IX side over the years, and I really don't remember what was done for t= he VAX, as I was not there at the time.=C2=A0 By MIPS/Alpha in the mid-late= 90's there was a whole new debugger stream that had been developed at = part of GEM,=C2=A0but there was another one that came from MIPs too which w= as based on dbx.

Clem

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