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From: clemc@ccc.com (Clem Cole)
Subject: [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie!
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2017 11:55:04 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAC20D2P99bYFBB2eUTqbA8KarTxZVr9JBPBbzrAwHJAwEAW=pQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <043e1f9205ac702c6cf01125a45d44afa956a210@webmail.yaccman.com>

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below...

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 12:34 AM, Steve Johnson <scj at yaccman.com> wrote:

>
> ​...​
>  At the time, the IBM 360 required that you run a special job step to
> create a file (we're talking punched cards here).  And then you had to pull
> that job step out of the deck because trying to create a file that already
> existed was an error.
>
​Point taken and sort of...TSS/360 and MTS was not (quite) as bad (although
it could be if you use the batch processing system), but Steve is right...
the idea of persistence was really not something people considered as
'easy' because it usually cost them money (real or allocated from the
computer center).

So I suspect part of it was the economics of storage at time.   On line
(magnetic) storage  was way more expensive than cards.   Its has been
pointed at the the original PDP-7 Ken used did not have a disk on it, it
was custom special DEC's CSS group had splicing a PDP-15 disk to it.  The
disk unit itself was manufactured by someone else (as were most/many of
DEC's disks for years).

Clay Christensen in "*The Innovator Dilemma" *has curves that actually
start a few years later when he studies the disk drive industry.   But its
the just part of the same effect he is talking about.

The key is the what UNIX was doing was not considered practical by the
mainframe folks, so people did not consider it.  It was a resources to be
protected (and to an extent, hoarded maybe).   Moore's Law, et al, was the
engine that allowed the UNIX innovation to really see light.  The way the
mainframes were doing things just did not make functional sense, but until
it was economical to do it otherwise - we were stuck.

As Steve says... it really was mind blowing for making things like this
easy.

Clem
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2017-09-09 15:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 204+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2017-09-08 20:54 Dave Horsfall
2017-09-08 21:04 ` Noel Chiappa
2017-09-08 21:09   ` Michael Kjörling
2017-09-09  1:16     ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-09  1:30       ` [TUHS] File-as-record (was: Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie!) Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2017-09-09  1:43         ` Warner Losh
2017-09-09  1:50         ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-09 13:59           ` [TUHS] File-as-record Arthur Krewat
2017-09-11 17:26         ` [TUHS] File-as-record (was: Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie!) Paul Winalski
2017-09-09  4:34       ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! Steve Johnson
2017-09-09 13:04         ` William Cheswick
2017-09-09 17:26           ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-09 17:49           ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-09 19:40             ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-09 20:33           ` Lawrence Stewart
2017-09-09 21:56             ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-10  1:27               ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-11 16:20             ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-09 15:55         ` Clem Cole [this message]
2017-09-08 22:28   ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-09 11:04     ` Michael Kjörling
2017-09-09 11:19       ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-08 21:05 ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-08 21:14 ` William Pechter
2017-09-08 22:13   ` Angus Robinson
2017-09-08 23:11     ` William Pechter
2017-09-09  5:13       ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-09 15:41         ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-09  4:20   ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-11 16:30   ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-11 16:49     ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really sun vs dec/apollo ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-11 17:37       ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-11 23:09       ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-12  7:38         ` arnold
2017-09-12 14:12           ` Ronald Natalie
2017-09-12 14:51             ` Toby Thain
2017-09-12 15:33             ` arnold
2017-09-12 15:35           ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really sun vs dec/apollo --> X and NeWS ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-12 16:57             ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-12 17:04             ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-12 17:07               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-12 22:11               ` [TUHS] X and NeWS history (long) Jon Steinhart
2017-09-12 22:58                 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-12 23:22                   ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-12 23:44                     ` Chris Torek
2017-09-12 23:41                 ` Adam Sampson
2017-09-13  0:14                   ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 16:38                     ` [TUHS] old X versions (was:X and NeWS history) Christian Groessler
2017-09-13 19:10                       ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-13 19:13                         ` Henry Bent
2017-09-19  0:44                       ` Random832
2017-09-19 10:30                         ` Nigel Williams
2017-09-19 14:05                           ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-19 15:16                             ` Gregg Levine
2017-09-19 15:39                               ` [TUHS] old X versions Chet Ramey
2017-09-19 18:23                                 ` Nemo
2017-09-19 18:32                                   ` Clem Cole
2017-09-19 18:32                                   ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-19 18:34                                     ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-19 18:43                                     ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-19 19:19                                       ` Stephen Kitt
2017-09-19 15:40                               ` [TUHS] old X versions (was:X and NeWS history) Clem Cole
2017-09-19 17:01                               ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-19 17:15                                 ` Gregg Levine
2017-09-19 18:56                                   ` Derek Fawcus
2017-09-19 19:22                                     ` [TUHS] old X versions Arthur Krewat
2017-09-19 20:15                                     ` [TUHS] old X versions (was:X and NeWS history) Gregg Levine
2017-09-19 18:30                                 ` Nemo
2017-09-19 23:40                               ` Wesley Parish
2017-09-19 23:46                                 ` [TUHS] old X versions Grant Taylor
2017-09-20  0:06                                   ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-13  0:29                 ` [TUHS] X and NeWS history (long) Bakul Shah
2017-09-13  0:52                   ` ron minnich
2017-09-13  0:54                     ` Warner Losh
2017-09-13  0:56                       ` ron minnich
2017-09-13  0:57                         ` Warner Losh
2017-09-13  2:06                         ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-13  3:34                           ` ron minnich
2017-09-13  3:55                             ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 15:16                               ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-13 15:42                                 ` [TUHS] X and NeWS history (long) [ really systemd, student access to real code ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13  1:42                     ` [TUHS] X and NeWS history (long) Arthur Krewat
2017-09-13  2:27                       ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-13 16:14                     ` Lawrence Stewart
2017-09-13  0:56                   ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13  1:34                     ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-13  2:43                     ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-13  3:01                       ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13  3:25                         ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-13  3:27                           ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-13 15:09                 ` Tony Finch
2017-09-13 15:19                   ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-12 23:33               ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really sun vs dec/apollo --> X and NeWS ] Dave Horsfall
2017-09-12 20:15             ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-13  2:23               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-14  0:53                 ` Nemo
2017-09-14  1:18                   ` Henry Bent
2017-09-14  3:15                   ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-14  9:35                   ` Rico Pajarola
2017-09-14 11:11                     ` arnold
2017-09-14 12:13                       ` Rico Pajarola
2017-09-14 12:50                         ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-14 13:27                           ` Rico Pajarola
2017-09-14 14:30                             ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-14 13:21                       ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-14 19:44                         ` arnold
2017-09-14 20:22                           ` [TUHS] Tools and building: libtool, autoconf, etc. [ trying to have a relevant subject line ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-14 20:32                             ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-14 21:00                               ` Chris Torek
2017-09-14 21:03                                 ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-14 22:26                                   ` Grant Taylor
2017-09-16  3:34                                 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-16  4:16                                   ` Warner Losh
2017-09-16  5:08                                   ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-16  3:33                               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-14 20:41                             ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-14 21:00                               ` Noel Hunt
2017-09-15 17:42                           ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really sun vs dec/apollo --> X and NeWS ] Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-14 20:31                         ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-15  3:16                   ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-15  3:33                     ` Warner Losh
2017-09-15  8:32                       ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-15 12:42                     ` Arthur Krewat
2017-09-15 18:20                     ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-15 18:37                       ` Paul Winalski
2017-09-13  7:30               ` arnold
2017-09-13 13:35                 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-13 23:55                   ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-14  0:18                     ` Henry Bent
2017-09-14  2:10                       ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-14 19:37                       ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-14 19:54                         ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-14 20:50                           ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-14 21:00                             ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-14 20:11                         ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-14 20:26                           ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-19  0:52                         ` Random832
2017-09-19  2:50                           ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19  2:56                             ` Gregg Levine
2017-09-19  3:37                               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19  6:52                                 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2017-09-19  7:22                             ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-19 13:22                               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 13:53                             ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-19 13:56                               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 17:56                                 ` Random832
2017-09-19 18:31                                   ` Steffen Nurpmeso
2017-09-19 18:34                                     ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 19:31                                   ` Lawrence Stewart
2017-09-20  3:13                                   ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-23 22:24                                     ` Ralph Corderoy
2017-09-19 14:32                             ` Clem Cole
2017-09-19 14:42                               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-19 15:12                                 ` Clem Cole
2017-09-19 18:03                                 ` Random832
2017-09-10  9:44 ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! arnold
2017-09-13 23:22   ` Dave Horsfall
2017-09-14 16:11     ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-14 16:15       ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-14 19:30         ` Theodore Ts'o
2017-09-14 19:52           ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-14 22:03             ` Christian Groessler
2017-09-14 22:39               ` Erik Berls
2017-09-14 22:52                 ` ron minnich
2017-09-14 23:04                   ` Warner Losh
2017-09-14 23:14                     ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-15 19:01                     ` Chris Torek
2017-09-15 19:50                       ` Lyndon Nerenberg
2017-09-15 19:56                         ` ron minnich
2017-09-15 20:34                         ` Chris Torek
2017-09-14 23:06                   ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-15  0:47                     ` ron minnich
2017-09-14 19:39         ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-14 20:09           ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! [ really Pottering vs UNIX ] Jon Steinhart
2017-09-14 21:35           ` [TUHS] Happy birthday, Dennis Ritchie! Theodore Ts'o
2017-09-15  1:40             ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-15 14:04               ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-16  3:40             ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-16  7:45               ` Steve Nickolas
2017-09-16 12:59               ` Ron Natalie
2017-09-16 18:19                 ` Andy Kosela
2017-09-17 18:37                 ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-18 15:11                   ` Steve Johnson
2017-09-16 19:20               ` arnold
2017-09-17  1:43                 ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-17  1:55                   ` Jon Steinhart
2017-09-17  2:14                     ` Warner Losh
2017-09-17  2:18                       ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-17 14:27                         ` Warner Losh
2017-09-17  5:13                     ` Ian Zimmerman
2017-09-17  5:19                   ` arnold
2017-09-17 18:49                     ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-17 18:57                       ` Kurt H Maier
2017-09-17 19:08                         ` Warner Losh
2017-09-17 19:33                           ` Bakul Shah
2017-09-17 19:22                         ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-17 18:43                   ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-18  0:12                     ` Larry McVoy
2017-09-18  0:51                       ` Clem Cole
2017-09-17 18:25               ` Chet Ramey
2017-09-17 18:31 Norman Wilson
2017-09-21 10:11 Doug McIlroy
2017-09-21 17:23 ` Mutiny 
2017-09-21 20:15   ` Nemo

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