From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 28240 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2021 14:18:32 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 2 Dec 2021 14:18:32 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B0AEC9CE29; Fri, 3 Dec 2021 00:18:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463129CD65; Fri, 3 Dec 2021 00:16:15 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="SPCC3Cp7"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 68F9F9CD65; Fri, 3 Dec 2021 00:16:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f53.google.com (mail-qv1-f53.google.com [209.85.219.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34AFB9C78B for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2021 00:16:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f53.google.com with SMTP id gu12so25016814qvb.6 for ; Thu, 02 Dec 2021 06:16:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jNGTIfBUIKxnANrkeUdBwDHIDSmZGZu6LTObovcWOZo=; b=SPCC3Cp7OL3Ga/ugiYXvDxFA6W2ax7NiuurWbiC2lvcf8mLcKEZ7aiYxZ00w6x5cH6 KoiBM0A6o48r9IdefD4gfZteWdOoXuLmMKXQu2441k/616gBirpMDSvE2IDafGAtKLx+ qfKL6JgdMlSb3F5YMwgvuS1lgI6Hbvf7q2eS8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jNGTIfBUIKxnANrkeUdBwDHIDSmZGZu6LTObovcWOZo=; b=pJDfR84YUbYBUfXm5y3rAGTBZp4bk0yHWbLc4sQeuVoCI2YRG06kHELHejXvGEt/R4 UuEh6ExDOmAIB0zRRCafdstsOJzmBRsQHlnI8h6xRM5YA1qOjyCJDbF989Ej01bPwqbO Bgg/8RUzNhsRP/37uQOQnjbxatvNjJp/xYnDwfD7yTU9pXzZL4LcGoNx5/skDyUNFKa+ /vc2ZcieIXYFgOERrBKhMS2UkamylG9G46517toBitxreeALP5s5f8n9sgTAOICZW+bM H2GrhIJo88JdFh73A+1g7daQlF0fje5/SpbSsp8x5rBgcNXrRTzVF3BgnK0a7HrivnOD 7IPA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Dtm7Kp4n//LugFBgThjq3m9NFpmMLJPeszB++Qn3ss4E70r3D wF34tWeZvmMWv9wrD+lGR+wOeWmzmGucKNVSUMEaVg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzGTLZD92Pl7ZqoTyCQWCEsL9egwNulvJRX4PMze354p7pRvPhdgcXad2qiAjh0ZPq2LR7pLpanxRRaFRSpTUU= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:5a13:: with SMTP id ei19mr13036565qvb.129.1638454567950; Thu, 02 Dec 2021 06:16:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4186ba55-8c1d-9a7b-f7f7-f45a86d3fe0c@solar.stanford.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2021 09:15:43 -0500 Message-ID: To: Henry Bent Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000080ee9405d22a6ea7" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Ratfor revived! X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --00000000000080ee9405d22a6ea7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Henry -- most people that I am aware used the original Fortran-IV version since that was the Lingua-Franca. The Pascal version was a few years later, and frankly other than to read the book, I personally never ran the results from them. But I can say I did use the original Fortran version under VMS back in the day. As bwk says in the Pascal edition, it was actually a difficult thing to do because Pascal lacked many features that really made it uniform across implementations, portable between systems themselves, and as a reasonable systems programming language. See: Why Pascal is Not My Favorite Programming Language Clem =E1=90=A7 On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 12:44 AM Henry Bent wrote: > Thank you, Clem. I am working on getting the tools running in DOSBox, > which seemed most straightforward. > > The Byte article (the scan of which I am very grateful for; not having to > go trawling through the stacks at the Oberlin College library is always a > plus) claims that the tools have been implemented on: > > ACOS > Amdahl > Apollo > AN/UYK > Burroughs > CDC > Cray > Data General > DEC > FACOM > GEC > HP > HITAC > Honeywell > IBM > Intel > Interdata > Modcomp > Multics > NCR > Perkin-Elmer > Prime > Rolm > SEL > Tandem > Univac > Wang > Xerox > CP/M Machines > MS/DOS Machines > UNIX Machines > > Which is quite the list; I've never even heard of a few of those! Based > on the files in the UNIX Archive, am I to assume that most of those ports > took advantage of a native Pascal compiler? That's how I'm planning to > bring the tools up on my local RT-11 machine. > > -Henry > > On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 19:34, Clem Cole wrote: > >> https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Software_Tools/ >> =E1=90=A7 >> >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 5:25 PM Henry Bent wrote= : >> >>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 17:17, Deborah Scherrer < >>> dscherrer@solar.stanford.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> All you folks revisiting the Software Tools should remember that there >>>> was an entire movement around the first book, based at Lawrence Berkel= ey >>>> Lab. The Software Tools group, an offshoot of Usenix, had about 2000 >>>> members. We created an almost-entire Unix environment based on a virt= ual >>>> operating system that we designed, inspired of course by Kernighan's >>>> ideas. The collection was ported to over 50 operating systems, includ= ing >>>> some without file systems. This is all still freely available, and s= tored >>>> with the Unix archives. >>>> >>> Could you provide a link to said environment, and suggest what sort of >>> machines it might have run on? I probably have something here that wil= l do >>> it, and I am very interested. >>> >>> -Henry >>> >>> >>>> On 12/1/21 12:59 PM, Clem Cole wrote: >>>> >>>> Arnold -- sounds fun. Thank you!!! I'll add it to my growing pile of >>>> things I want to play with at some point. I too had a wonderful chil= dhood >>>> experience with the SW tools. Somebody had a number of them running o= n a >>>> VMS box when all we had was the VMS Fortran compiler, no C yet. >>>> >>>> I am curious why did you decide to use byacc? I would have thought i= n >>>> a desire to modernize and make it more available on a modern system --= was >>>> there something in byacc that could not be done easily in bison? To = be >>>> honest, I had thought Robert Corbett did them both and bison was the >>>> successor to byacc, but I'm not a compiler guy - so I'm suspecting tha= t >>>> there must be a difference/reason. As I said, this is purely curiosi= ty -- >>>> an educational opportunity. >>>> >>>> Thanks again, >>>> Clem >>>> =E1=90=A7 >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 3:41 PM Arnold Robbins >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi All. >>>>> >>>>> Mainly for fun (sic), I decided to revive the Ratfor (Rational >>>>> Fortran) preprocessor. Please see: >>>>> >>>>> https://github.com/arnoldrobbins/ratfor >>>>> >>>>> I started with the V6 code, then added the V7, V8 and V10 versions >>>>> on top of it. Each one has its own branch so that you can look >>>>> at the original code, if you wish. The man page and the paper from >>>>> the V7 manual are also included. >>>>> >>>>> Starting with the Tenth Edition version, I set about to modernize >>>>> the code and get it to compile and run on a modern-day system. >>>>> (ANSI style declarations and function headers, modern include files, >>>>> use of getopt, and most importantly, correct use of Yacc yyval and >>>>> yylval variables.) >>>>> >>>>> You will need Berkely Yacc installed as byacc in order to build it. >>>>> >>>>> I have only touch-tested it, but so far it seems OK. 'make' runs in >>>>> like 2 >>>>> seconds, really quick. On my Ubuntu Linux systems, it compiles with >>>>> no warnings. >>>>> >>>>> I hope to eventually add a test suite also, if I can steal some time. >>>>> >>>>> Before anyone asks, no, I don't think anybody today has any real use >>>>> for it. This was simply "for fun", and because Ratfor has a soft >>>>> spot in my heart. "Software Tools" was, for me, the most influential >>>>> programming book that I ever read. I don't think there's a better >>>>> book to convey the "zen" of Unix. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Arnold >>>>> >>>> --00000000000080ee9405d22a6ea7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Henry -- most people that I am aware used the original = Fortran-IV version since that was the Lingua-Franca.=C2=A0 The Pascal versi= on was a few years later, and frankly other than to read the book, I person= ally never ran the results from them.=C2=A0 But I can say I did use the ori= ginal Fortran version under VMS back in the day.=C2=A0 As bwk says in the P= ascal edition, it was actually a difficult thing to do because Pascal lacke= d many features that really made it uniform across implementations, portabl= e between systems themselves, and as a reasonable=C2=A0systems programming = language.=C2=A0 See:=C2=A0Why Pascal is Not My Favorite Programming La= nguage

Clem
3D""=E1=90=A7
On Thu, = Dec 2, 2021 at 12:44 AM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you, Clem.=C2=A0 I = am working on getting the tools running in DOSBox, which seemed most straig= htforward.

The Byte article (the scan of which I a= m very grateful for; not having to go trawling through the stacks at the Ob= erlin College library is always a plus) claims that the tools have been imp= lemented on:

ACOS
Amdahl
Apoll= o
AN/UYK
Burroughs
CDC
Cray
Data General
DEC
FACOM
GEC
HP
HITAC
Honeywell
IBM
Intel
I= nterdata
Modcomp
Multics
NCR
Perkin= -Elmer
Prime
Rolm
SEL
Tandem
<= div>Univac
Wang
Xerox
CP/M Machines
MS/DOS Machines
UNIX Machines

Which is = quite the list; I've never even heard of a few of those!=C2=A0 Based on= the files in the UNIX Archive, am I to assume that most of those ports too= k advantage of a native Pascal compiler?=C2=A0 That's how I'm plann= ing to bring the tools up on my local RT-11 machine.

-Henry

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 19:34, Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrot= e:
3D""=E1=90=A7

On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 5:25 PM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent@gmail.= com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 at 17:17, Deborah S= cherrer <dscherrer@solar.stanford.edu> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

All you folks revisiting the Software Tools should remember that there was an entire movement around the first book, based at Lawrence Berkeley Lab.=C2=A0 The Software Tools group, an offshoot of Usenix, had about 2000 members.=C2=A0 We created an almost-entire Uni= x environment based on a virtual operating system that we designed, inspired of course by Kernighan's ideas.=C2=A0 The collection was ported to over 50 operating systems, including some without file systems.=C2=A0=C2=A0 This is all still freely available, and stored w= ith the Unix archives.

Could you provide a link to= said environment, and suggest what sort of machines it might have run on?= =C2=A0 I probably have something here that will do it, and I am very intere= sted.

-Henry
=C2=A0
=20
On 12/1/21 12:59 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
=20
Arnold -- sounds fun.=C2=A0 Thank you!!!=C2=A0 I'll add it to my growin= g pile of things I want to play with at some point.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I too had a wonderful childhood experience with the SW tools.=C2=A0 Somebody had a number of them running on a VMS box when all we had was the VMS Fortran compiler, no C yet.

I am curious why did you decide=C2=A0to use byacc?=C2=A0 =C2=A0I would have th= ought in a desire to modernize and make it more available on a modern system -- was there something in byacc that could not be done easily in bison?=C2=A0 =C2=A0To be honest, I had thought=C2=A0Robert Corbett did them both and bison was the successor to byacc, but I'm not a compiler=C2=A0guy - so I'm suspecting that there=C2=A0must = be a difference/reason.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As I said, this is purely curios= ity=C2=A0-- an educational opportunity.

Thanks = again,
Clem
3D""==E1=90=A7

On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 3:41 P= M Arnold Robbins <arnold@skeeve.com> wrote:
Hi All.

Mainly for fun (sic), I decided to revive the Ratfor (Rational Fortran) preprocessor.=C2=A0 Please see:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://github.com/arno= ldrobbins/ratfor

I started with the V6 code, then added the V7, V8 and V10 versions
on top of it. Each one has its own branch so that you can look at the original code, if you wish. The man page and the paper from
the V7 manual are also included.

Starting with the Tenth Edition version, I set about to modernize
the code and get it to compile and run on a modern-day system. (ANSI style declarations and function headers, modern include files,
use of getopt, and most importantly, correct use of Yacc yyval and
yylval variables.)

You will need Berkely Yacc installed as byacc in order to build it.

I have only touch-tested it, but so far it seems OK.=C2=A0 'm= ake' runs in like 2
seconds, really quick. On my Ubuntu Linux systems, it compiles with
no warnings.

I hope to eventually add a test suite also, if I can steal some time.

Before anyone asks, no, I don't think anybody today has any real use
for it.=C2=A0 This was simply "for fun", and because Ra= tfor has a soft
spot in my heart.=C2=A0 "Software Tools" was, for me, t= he most influential
programming book that I ever read.=C2=A0 I don't think there&= #39;s a better
book to convey the "zen" of Unix.

Thanks,

Arnold
--00000000000080ee9405d22a6ea7--