From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19552 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2023 20:14:12 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Aug 2023 20:14:12 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3E31425BB; Sat, 5 Aug 2023 06:14:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vk1-xa30.google.com (mail-vk1-xa30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::a30]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19085425BA for ; Sat, 5 Aug 2023 06:14:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vk1-xa30.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-48642870fe5so722549e0c.1 for ; Fri, 04 Aug 2023 13:14:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1691180041; x=1691784841; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=mydQtGQoYpEC0hPi6iuAoQa8YCc8TRFjbNOdU+WWNV8=; b=lP2GNsDrUYYyoghXX/PbGz6I/7kLmtu48pwrEw0FCEhrC9o+xmrsE7xPybDCgOn4r8 ENWsCBxfArpwGZ+DwJo26dyrD+Wn9kJo1RDJP5eqoFi3MBu2GZc7gcdCgXcNePDZH4sv 0ifTDTNjq0UJptwIehmN6or+2L5vdK2oiGcEs= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691180041; x=1691784841; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=mydQtGQoYpEC0hPi6iuAoQa8YCc8TRFjbNOdU+WWNV8=; b=F9O/+M0IHD9IJ++/Q4dlmtHokR+zg2wjyAPqL25IDHRkX5ohdypWScISUh4yGRcfn2 f/jiOwMALfGgGZjGUizobwSXNljoqBK9RFjueV5B/FZq75Y/fyJrbidpTHOiryOt4WTw sPOyGGkWGNLjpdwQfyJFr10eMHD3TiNBuFr+cBiDkIzGEsxWuFyUL8YvM7GokW84QwLR Coxe1CmIv3c8j68Z6fQyBn7LGEyj9CYZ+Wm/pPzmEo76ggysKg+pWrPUWZvCqieInbe+ 2UXqbhy1WuOPSneF60ZA2BAQMJvWbGTBKPq5Gzlb2YSZEVKo7q7tYj1QkBiiJOJ5sNDk gk7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyZb8paAlpoX3ouBjmNCdRpqZiIl2UrXyCWCkwUNt7ci4N8I6fk TlhkAsXY7ZfNPwnKWJE6l6pHV1HlCOqpRsyPemFF6AqyKuFR2BLM X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGsQJTfqNsVXp1hTBlWUNue4BEb82ZgJjWaFYxzdaEmcGaaeHki5v/9rDf7HKD/TqTlUOBAzGdDO80PeoAgx28= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:45d7:0:b0:487:1bef:edea with SMTP id s206-20020a1f45d7000000b004871befedeamr1583423vka.1.1691180040823; Fri, 04 Aug 2023 13:14:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2023 16:13:24 -0400 Message-ID: To: segaloco Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000095b75006021e89c0" Message-ID-Hash: JCDEAFBEE3N4LGAUTXJDUASLK6MACJMG X-Message-ID-Hash: JCDEAFBEE3N4LGAUTXJDUASLK6MACJMG X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: SVR2 on the PDP-11? SVR3? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000095b75006021e89c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 2:14=E2=80=AFAM segaloco via TUHS wr= ote: > Does anyone know if there are any surviving examples of SVR2 for the > PDP-11? Various SVR2 manuals still make mention of the assembler, linker, > etc. and the pdp11 variable is present in machid(1)*. And on the note of > the later years of the PDP-11, was there any hope for SVR3 on the PDP? I > presume the introduction of demand paging was the end of things but I wou= ld > be curious for anyone's recollections on the final years of System V on t= he > PDP-11. > > - Matt G. > BTW Sometime around this time, Summit starts to stop full support for the 11. I want to say that by then, getting anything for the 11 out of the Bell system was difficult. I do remember that by SVR3 time, the only thing you could get officially from Summit was the 3B/WE32000-based tape as the 3B5 was the official reference for UNIX. IIRC SVR1 and SVR2 the Vax was the reference implementation, and with R1, you could still order a PDP-11 tape; but frankly, I've forgotten exactly when they stopped but I seem to remember not for SVR2. I personally had lost interest in the PDP-11 from AT&T by then. And if I could have obtained a SVR3 tape for VAX, most of the workstation folks like me would have ordered it, because we almost all had an 11/750 [usually running a flavor of BSD] around. The running joke was that you knew you own UNIX port was solid wen you could run UUCP and sendmail for you companies external gateway. IIRC as a for instance, Eric Fair was running a Vax at Apple since Apple's own UNIX product could not do it. BTW: With SVR4 the Intel 386 family was the reference. AT&T had bought NCR by then, and NCR had flipped to it's 'Seven Layer Stragety' which was Intel ISA across each level and had kill off all their Motorola-based products. After the purchase with the NCR folks running AT&T's computer division, the 3B series began its demise even for AT&T and the RBOC. I was an external consultant for them at that point, and I may even have a memo from the Chief Architect (Lee Hovel - my boss/client in those days) that killed it [I actually the analysis for him that killed off the 88000 machines - which made my name mud in Columbia, SC where there had developed it - but I was not part of the 3B stuff]. > P.S. *interesting little 3B5 side note, found as I was checking reference= s > that machid(1) in the "System V" branded manual from the initial System V > commercial release mentions the pdp11, vax, and u3b machines, the latter > being the 3B20S. However, the "Release 5.0" branded manuals also make > mention of the u3b5 machine, the 3B5. > The 20S was a bit larger than a Vax 11/780 - just half of the 20D [duplex], which was developed to control the ESS#5 and was logic -- I don't remember what family, but likely 74S series. So it was traditional 19" racks and 48v telco-style power. While the 3B5 used a WE32000 chip as a 'desktop' system and plugged into a standard NEMA 110v jack. =E1=90=A7 --00000000000095b75006021e89c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, Aug 4, 2023 at 2:14= =E2=80=AFAM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuh= s.org> wrote:
Does anyone= know if there are any surviving examples of SVR2 for the PDP-11? Various S= VR2 manuals still make mention of the assembler, linker, etc. and the pdp11= variable is present in machid(1)*. And on the note of the later years of t= he PDP-11, was there any hope for SVR3 on the PDP? I presume the introducti= on of demand paging was the end of things but I would be curious for anyone= 's recollections on the final years of System V on the PDP-11.

- Matt G.

BTW Sometime around=C2=A0this time, Summit starts = to stop full support for the 11.=C2=A0 I want to say that by then, getting = anything for the 11 out of the Bell system was difficult.=C2=A0 I do rememb= er=C2=A0that by SVR3 time, the only thing you could get officially=C2=A0fro= m Summit was the 3B/WE32000-based tape as the 3B5 was the official referenc= e for UNIX.

IIRC SVR1 and SVR2 the Vax was the referen= ce implementation, and with R1, you could still order a PDP-11 tape; but fr= ankly, I've forgotten exactly when they stopped but I seem to remember = not for=C2=A0SVR2.=C2=A0 I personally had lost interest in the PDP-11 from = AT&T by then.=C2=A0 =C2=A0And if I could have obtained a SVR3 tape for = VAX, most of the workstation folks like me would have ordered it, because w= e almost all had an 11/750 [usually running a flavor of BSD] around.=C2=A0 = =C2=A0The running joke was that you knew you own UNIX port was solid wen yo= u could run UUCP and sendmail for you companies external gateway.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0IIRC as a for instance, Eric Fair was running a Vax at Apple since Apple= 's own UNIX product could not do it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

B= TW: With SVR4 the Intel 386 family was the reference.=C2=A0 =C2=A0AT&T = had bought NCR by then, and NCR had flipped to it's 'Seven Layer St= ragety' which was Intel ISA across each level and had kill off all thei= r Motorola-based products.=C2=A0 After the purchase with the NCR folks runn= ing AT&T's computer division, the 3B series began its demise even f= or AT&T and the RBOC.=C2=A0 I was an external consultant for them at th= at point, and I may even have a memo from the Chief Architect (Lee Hovel - = my boss/client in those days) that killed it [I actually the analysis for h= im that killed off the 88000 machines - which made my name mud in Columbia,= SC where there had developed it - but I was not part of the 3B stuff].



P.S. *interesting l= ittle 3B5 side note, found as I was checking references that machid(1) in t= he "System V" branded manual from the initial System V commercial= release mentions the pdp11, vax, and u3b machines, the latter being the 3B= 20S. However, the "Release 5.0" branded manuals also make mention= of the u3b5 machine, the 3B5.
The 20S was a bit = larger than a Vax 11/780 - just half of the 20D [duplex], which was develop= ed to control the ESS#5 and was logic -- I don't remember what family, = but likely 74S series. So it was traditional 19" racks and 48v telco-s= tyle power.=C2=A0 =C2=A0While the 3B5 used a WE32000 chip as a 'desktop= ' system and plugged into a standard NEMA 110v jack.
<= /div>
3D""=E1=90=A7
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