From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 7435 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2020 14:38:10 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 20 Jul 2020 14:38:10 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 4AEB19BA4D; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 00:38:10 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AE849BA30; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 00:37:18 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="RgBTOok+"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3BF449BA30; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 00:37:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f181.google.com (mail-qk1-f181.google.com [209.85.222.181]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFDFB9BA2A for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 00:37:15 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f181.google.com with SMTP id b4so15453498qkn.11 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:37:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e5eVEQxOnqO6mT0Wy4jHad3ns5ferCTOcn83cjZQ1uM=; b=RgBTOok+aBMl/+jhnx+0yk3/ATlxEWjh1dm6az37aEm/wWRdmPt1sXtzul5V2d3YY/ DfqXfUqNuaCA0r9+hdhwtxCqbvYGOIOq8Eh0AprXX5RPM9cvzMF3ZugN6oYALTkOelxV iWVwYWQEHMrRMslbqyrt71aBWYXlksLWu3I0A= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e5eVEQxOnqO6mT0Wy4jHad3ns5ferCTOcn83cjZQ1uM=; b=FGRgw58XQw6UrawrZEh1bjj///gYOnGMGXO8HpMNgc/bEKKkrZ7ghAdgyYwrcpzr22 67z1UeddPbc/gxHOBiBNRZ53HXh+KDC66+qk0y1TYfQTbwG0r3NLRYegDvvPxs30eE+B QSKcGsabH1Cu7US55/CCAdt3MPwqAI44ViRupI6EoeLZS4FTdGu6aykyXHORxn3QHXsf gp+wOJUQWwZ4lTa6o6EiwS5RhQxhs51l4/+D18fvt5mDqWeRngqPNU4vVj6qHc3jOxQ/ VaBUXaT8lWBLIZ+We1gyEZf6nk/xubnwbhuwIjiP68C4E7z9lqeWZpRZZT4Mnxsdkg+4 GIlw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530UIq27H63pTicpQl6FPkmrVTAFKVH1qd9QSye9l7SUWWv2wl7J 5m/2OUoUTwUF81Pgga8OwJ+ukGRHED6QMY8asdcjQg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzQ/QOAtdSXzFaRoQJJECoD5dhQmSRqLvTLuIOj5AeZvAyC/MgUoCB2J9c3uyj47sHTuviPcKguklchAF9GX+Y= X-Received: by 2002:a37:4641:: with SMTP id t62mr9005306qka.25.1595255834729; Mon, 20 Jul 2020 07:37:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <77c0536b-87b8-44dd-96fd-76d8ceba30f2@localhost> <2135afdb-db52-05d2-9af6-24ad36367db3@tnetconsulting.net> <40a70393-894a-4b21-8678-a71bbca4aa69@localhost> <8e7efd45-a84e-cf20-9d30-8222357596a3@tnetconsulting.net> <202007200847.06K8l8DF026646@freefriends.org> <20200720114957.GL26294@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20200720114957.GL26294@mcvoy.com> From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 10:36:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005af24c05aae07168" Subject: Re: [TUHS] A/UX [was Linux is on-topic] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000005af24c05aae07168 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:51 AM Larry McVoy wrote: > This isn't quite the same but Victor Yodaiken wrote a real time kernel > that ran all of Linux as a user process. Super cool idea and it worked > great, he would demo it sampling the parallel port while Linux was running > some X11 perf thing, tarring up /usr and untarring on nfs://server/tmp/usr > and doing a ftp transfer. Basically beating the crap out of Linux as > hard as he could while running a real time sampler and it never missed. > > Clem should pay attention, in my opinion, this is how you do Unix and > real time. Because Unix is time sharing and throughput, that is the > opposite of what real time is. Wedging real time into Unix is a mistake. > > http://mcvoy.com/lm/papers/rtlmanifesto.pdf As often true, I really don't disagree with you. Around the time I left Masscomp for Stellar we were working on a rewrite with some ex-CMU folks (Doug ... I don't remember is his last name now) that used a preemptive RT microkernel under the covers and then supplied RTU system calls. Tom and I left for Stellar and a couple of other people left too. This was time of the reign of Mr. Potato Head (ex-IBM guy that was named CEO) and things blew up. --0000000000005af24c05aae07168 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:51= AM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wr= ote:
This isn= 9;t quite the same but Victor Yodaiken wrote a real time kernel
that ran all of Linux as a user process.=C2=A0 Super cool idea and it worke= d
great, he would demo it sampling the parallel port while Linux was running<= br> some X11 perf thing, tarring up /usr and untarring on nfs://server/tmp/usr<= br> and doing a ftp transfer.=C2=A0 Basically beating the crap out of Linux as<= br> hard as he could while running a real time sampler and it never missed.

Clem should pay attention, in my opinion, this is how you do Unix and
real time.=C2=A0 Because Unix is time sharing and throughput, that is the opposite of what real time is.=C2=A0 Wedging real time into Unix is a mista= ke.

http://mcvoy.com/lm/papers/rtlmanifesto.pdf
As often true, I really don't disagree with you.=C2=A0 Arou= nd the time I left Masscomp for Stellar we were working on a rewrite with s= ome ex-CMU folks (Doug ... I don't remember is his last name now) that = used a preemptive RT microkernel under the covers and then supplied RTU sys= tem calls.=C2=A0 Tom and I left for Stellar and a couple of other people le= ft too.=C2=A0 This was time of the reign of Mr. Potato Head (ex-IBM guy tha= t was named CEO) and things blew up.
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