From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 1256 invoked from network); 9 Dec 2020 15:41:31 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Dec 2020 15:41:31 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 83248944FE; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:41:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8424944D4; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:40:52 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="qtf8Pe3o"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 56935944D4; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:40:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f174.google.com (mail-qk1-f174.google.com [209.85.222.174]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2223E944D3 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:40:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f174.google.com with SMTP id m185so498879qkf.12 for ; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 07:40:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=J+RzdDJVtd48jmNGbK08tTFmS5a/T5GHjK6a4Ujh3sA=; b=qtf8Pe3ovKMllSm1UXfy0FjgOtW3PYAzqh1DXWJBJ7UiSqijJ2TYPRLvFDxNE19NPO GLjb4iVQXPzaUuYLEr98fUXJZtPE+0/wtTSmuQuODBs+weAtW01w/3ity6bfKSqSV2z4 bsu0rrSbMd3CPon50bFY2L5hc+c9S6S1QlGI8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=J+RzdDJVtd48jmNGbK08tTFmS5a/T5GHjK6a4Ujh3sA=; b=dreg8VXvDkFlYJ4MDONrbWygNM/Mj/oPyIn6VoMAHhIapkXdgkQ60UOf+3QsRi13aj hGF2cKWny4ASegA9NIPciejORjqixtwkTkBfsMpBuxf0i5PROykfyPVV3sISY/Rc+8ff s6mfxK8mndGrlJFhGtGxXR3nw7ZrfZ4cJyygs/r931fkAGwpwXAU/jlS4s2awxyWtjO8 LGCWUdaIynuvLpju0SZ+8DRczVog+bQKzE8tjAP+ZlcshI0UnUAm0E1v3yNL5zlLvxFY 9b5DTNCu7SJ6wrmNszvY4eJangBfbVwJk5mAt994TataapCTrUbLO5Q8X8duAWxeM0n7 +aWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5331JD28qFXq6bEZ/avl0UGU5qyHo2vLyUuLSRqSIGRavfzVDXet rIJcnRg43rGoyDly3Go5R+1QLseLPhNFbo0hw46Ryw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwh8h9geEJOvU648TaRZGrTfihHbqE3wFP4qTDDeGRiI2wyWbqMvHQD98Zd4Y2nhedExAE1ICURdjd9CquaFBg= X-Received: by 2002:a37:6f07:: with SMTP id k7mr3730057qkc.476.1607528445750; Wed, 09 Dec 2020 07:40:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2020 10:40:19 -0500 Message-ID: To: M Douglas McIlroy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f9c92a05b609e12f" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Were cron and at done at the same time? Or one before the other? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000f9c92a05b609e12f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Amen Doug. On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 11:36 PM M Douglas McIlroy < m.douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote: > To paraphrase John Cocke (speaking about Fortran): one must understand > that Unix commands are not a logical language. They are a natural > language--in the sense that they developed by organic evolution, not > "intelligent design". > But I offer a suggestion that another dimension that should be forgotten in time scale and the economics within. When things evolve they do so on different clocks that are not necessarily linear. *i.e. *what was 'better' (winning) today, but might not be considered so tomorrow, however could yet prove otherwise sometime later. I use programming languages as a great example... There was a huge C vs Pascal debate, that C 'won' - but I've always said the rise of C++ came from the Pascal folks that could say "C didn't win." From the ashes of C++ we have Java, Go, and Rust. My point is that "intelligent design" doesn't necessarily guarantee goodness or for that matter,complete logical thinking. My own take on this is what I call "Cole's Law" *Simple economics always beats sophisticated architecture.* What you call *organic evolution* is what I think of what makes the *best economic sense* for the user and that is a function of the time scale and available resources at the time of creation/deployment. Clem --000000000000f9c92a05b609e12f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Amen Doug.

On Tue, Dec= 8, 2020 at 11:36 PM M Douglas McIlroy <m.douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
To paraphrase John Cocke (speaking about Fortran): one mus= t understand
that Unix commands are not a logical language. They are a natural
language--in the sense that they developed by organic evolution, not
"intelligent design".
But I offer a suggestion that another dimension that should be= forgotten in time scale and the economics within.
=
When things evolve they do so on different clocks that are not ne= cessarily=C2=A0linear.=C2=A0 =C2=A0i.e. what was 'better' (w= inning) today, but might not be considered so tomorrow, however could yet p= rove otherwise sometime later.=C2=A0 I use programming languages as a great= example...=C2=A0 =C2=A0There was a huge C vs Pascal debate, that C 'wo= n' - but I've always said the rise of C++ came from the Pascal folk= s=C2=A0that could say=C2=A0"C didn't win."=C2=A0 From the ash= es of C++ we have Java, Go, and Rust.=C2=A0

My point is that=C2=A0 =C2=A0"intelligent design" doesn't = necessarily=C2=A0guarantee goodness or for that matter,complete logical thi= nking.

My own take on this is what I call= "Cole's Law"=C2=A0 =C2=A0Simple economics always beats sophisticated architecture.
What you call organic evolution is what I think of what makes th= e best economic sense for the user and that is a function of the tim= e scale and available resources at the time of creation/deployment.<= /div>

Clem

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