From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E8527248 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 16:35:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 059D643E0E; Fri, 28 Jun 2024 00:35:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-yb1-xb31.google.com (mail-yb1-xb31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b31]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A272B43E0D for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2024 00:35:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb31.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-dfdff9771f8so7419637276.1 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1719498920; x=1720103720; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=r08IE2N1HFfA/9N1ObGGaJuC4hVYBxEHiEQTSXkVmp4=; b=bOW96IaOaBUHCgHM/2EiUHRtK8D4rPUIzoJPm3EzOSliaQNDhZMM7AH/UDTObJvVYB 4JEwXwroNTFemJgnRTYNxnoH8pqE8Ih4q4q7z8lITMqBom6oUfs/1J6FE7mz0nvVgmqb /I/RCc3tPSH7XqNOms39dCF1JSpBaFTYLcP1k= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1719498920; x=1720103720; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=r08IE2N1HFfA/9N1ObGGaJuC4hVYBxEHiEQTSXkVmp4=; b=Zdoiwo3chXhPNCXOTlsBRi3lFww5WReAIV/xMUnlH+eK6dno+HOgmnM4oEVnmA/I5F uXsK7f9XJkXo2CGC8gh8XFOBj30bM6oZbJymvxchewjb1vTaW5hWjalTQlwxdSQPHEAW nOTmu3NGm/D1XdthLAbEUcc3EOREh4wNmDZ5cJweczrWlP7KX3M5H5hemXCcOYEiENqK MSC75ytHgge1wMu7hXeXDaKMqn7LJabJEmyLu87UBSkr6PkjKBlqjtHwsUaQZ+Rgag9u Y1UYGzBrgn4Y5OmDrVb04JtFg1kaT46vioQ0RNhUrbrS29Ah/6yuv6fHZfDXVd7N5Tdz EZ8w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyKrvzexpPXr/qX4oSlBF9jFk4hRvVehg09grR5v/qzraCdNr7S z7lXIpzFGI0/FtjzH8ltBaaoSltHDa3Thw0SPWqOWnX23IzB8OZ92f+Qlhipzpfk8/EEA/Fd5A6 26c9543ei/G9wwq1dc3ZW/nFEMcF9MyYVUq0oN5WBaQXxwcWii4Pr X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG/Z/EB4ki1kJsZV+Ir9jquR+6YOX/wKTDGA37EdvhGGnK1n/vy/3ACMoiZHPuOGP6eTF1lsf8cXQtAy7aikis= X-Received: by 2002:a25:2943:0:b0:de5:4a92:435f with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e03454fba79mr2464085276.46.1719498920124; Thu, 27 Jun 2024 07:35:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20240626215309.XWtuefzk@steffen%sdaoden.eu> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:34:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000053801b061be00ac0" Message-ID-Hash: N5QRY5DYNGJNFKYDSAKJR4LR3I4T3XR3 X-Message-ID-Hash: N5QRY5DYNGJNFKYDSAKJR4LR3I4T3XR3 X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Origin of the name POSIX (was: ANSI (C) vs IEEE (POSIX) Standards Body Selection) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000053801b061be00ac0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 7:59=E2=80=AFAM Dan Cross wrote: > > A way to verify this would be to look for attendee lists from early > POSIX meetings, though I'm having trouble locating them. I was the original editor (more in a minute), and I believe I have an early draft on my Masscomp machine, which is currently not powered up. I'll try to add it to my to-do list to bring this online. The first section has an attendee list. I also have (in a box in my attic) some of the original handouts, including minutes. That is already on my to-do list. > My initial search turned up this document, a 1995 retrospective from Hal > Jespersen, where he credits Stallman for coining the name "POSIX": > https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/210308.210313. > I just read it. Much is correct, but that document has numerous errors, including the transition from /usr/group to IEEE (which Heinz and I were involved in - Hal was not). I'll send a number of updates/corrections later= . For instance, the C standard was not related to the UNIX standard and was not originally championed by /usr/group - but rather the PC-based folks. Remember, this document came about before the age of laptops. We made changes and suggestions during the meetings. The /usr/group document was edited offline after the meetings (Heinz may remember who did that work). We started the same process by the time we transitioned to IEEE. Since the meetings were originally held currently with a /usr/group // UNIForum or USENIX event, they were always near one of the Masscomp field offices. I told Jim that I could (and did) arrange for a loaner Masscomp system with a number of Wyse-60 terminals to be there for our meeting. By the way, Jim was worried that all documents were following the IEEE rules of being numbered and correctly indexed. But by editing at the meeting and starting with the /usr/group document, we did turn it into an IEEE-style draft in under two years. As a result, I ended up as the defacto editor for the first few drafts. As I said, I believe I have an early copy (in troff, of course) on my Masscomp box. Clem =E1=90=A7 --00000000000053801b061be00ac0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 7:59= =E2=80=AFAM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.= com> wrote:

A way to verify this would be to look for attendee lists from early
POSIX meetings, though I'm having trouble locating them.
<= div>
I was the original editor (mo= re in a minute), and I believe I have an early draft on my Masscomp machine= , which is currently not powered up.
I'll try to add it to my to-do list to bring this online. The first se= ction has an attendee list.

I also have (in a box in my attic) som= e of the original handouts, including minutes.=C2=A0 That is already on my = to-do list.

=C2=A0
My initial=C2=A0search turned up this = document, a 1995 retrospective from Hal
Jespersen, where he credits Stallman for coining the name "POSIX"= :
https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/210308.210313= .
=C2=A0I just read it. Mu= ch is correct, but that document has numerous errors, including the transit= ion from /usr/group to IEEE (which Heinz and I were involved in - Hal was = not). I'll=C2=A0send a number of updates/corrections later. For instance, the C = standard was not related to the UNIX standard and was not originally champi= oned by /usr/group - but rather the PC-based folks.

Remember, this document ca= me about before the age of laptops. We made changes and suggestions during = the meetings.=C2=A0The /usr/group document was edited o= ffline after the meetings (Heinz may remember who did that work)= .=C2=A0 We started the same process by the time we transitioned to IEEE= .=C2=A0 Since the meetings were originally held currently with a /usr/group= // UNIForum or USENIX event, they were always near one of the Masscomp fie= ld offices.=C2=A0 I told Jim that I could (and did) arrange for a loaner=C2= =A0 Masscomp system with a number of Wyse-60 terminals to be there for our = meeting.

By the way, Jim was worried that all documents were follow= ing the IEEE rules of being numbered and correctly indexed. But by editing = at the meeting and starting with the /usr/group document, we did turn it in= to an IEEE-style draft in under two=C2=A0years.=C2=A0 As a result, I ended = up as the defacto editor for the first few drafts.=C2=A0 As I said, I belie= ve I have an early copy (in troff, of course) on my Masscomp box.

Clem
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