From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E86B521EA9 for ; Wed, 8 May 2024 20:13:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB6743339; Thu, 9 May 2024 04:13:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ot1-x32e.google.com (mail-ot1-x32e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::32e]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCFD843336 for ; Thu, 9 May 2024 04:13:31 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ot1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id 46e09a7af769-6f09ed75e4cso1128198a34.3 for ; Wed, 08 May 2024 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1715192011; x=1715796811; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=IE+rOyNc94RgGcyZEoE22XCGzCXLGBJDdTYZt0WLEY0=; b=cKCmaGHw9IPXZXvlhtq4d5VdMXqHWo5wQnth8rFuDZzmTdYDNAtOH29UPswIqz8Auc lVmAdGTzQfWuZzP2Z1tAQI5OWuNGz/JPt78cJczPSjO2BTTd3OX4lB7qUkaz1OSLleY1 OFYr1uBeWNAbNF8S2n+0JFAOOjGs6nuGDg/d4= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1715192011; x=1715796811; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=IE+rOyNc94RgGcyZEoE22XCGzCXLGBJDdTYZt0WLEY0=; b=hJd1i+m5j+GUgrMGcDDUN48jh4tIGdd4XDmgt4/p4MTIRYXVV7wwfSEjcIWLlJbovW 38CdFJFMIVHejv6bESLimv+Cgx8gRntBs+0jg1lkyXld7o9KmBMZL5zdiLaq79Tgf6nw LzwqHawJcAY0Pom66xiCwX0xfD8YHP6cBX4/j4YJ603cxCaSiUcHxPpTKUl9bjNyfyN7 cgUxI8PjrFWowDjeywXwYL72+gxFFqj2AP3boDXln1TK1K2p6xsMhFrZyEi+nhC16LhT 8kWeZNzTTo6jDuTlKUr/0j/bBFv2PTBjnTcwyOq8y7tegwxlOgaRmnO5BgZaoVwY3IcZ yylw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyRjnW4QQJeTf+Uu4YpcZKpCXy4gGq2vt/6IQLP6ztJicQqLCAQ 6L851WZLzDTOPKxYM0Av4q6spTQQNfwS7gAieDBQ2sLpyIYyxlMR3qqHiTeYy20TNzIys3vGxZH NhbbE8Kse9p/OKQjOA911TDyL2GESBFFVmfTn4L8pbWMnnUQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE424OelAcNPMOaEFxgRRm3tsydSU1qxAUSg2YYHuyN3K8w2G13WePaM8qCFBlKLAqoDMhdKMpwpTru23o/+zw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6358:24aa:b0:192:9834:7975 with SMTP id e5c5f4694b2df-192d2e54ca8mr351051855d.11.1715192010726; Wed, 08 May 2024 11:13:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <18efd14f-4da6-4771-ad6a-901c6cb6105d@planet.nl> <57a37626-728c-4f34-b08b-a4f521f1db03@planet.nl> <517e03bf-09d2-9e5e-fe21-df17318d4080@bitsavers.org> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 8 May 2024 14:12:55 -0400 Message-ID: To: Al Kossow Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008583fa0617f54211" Message-ID-Hash: L564MGV5SG6OXUNP5QFOJZTQKT6ZEARJ X-Message-ID-Hash: L564MGV5SG6OXUNP5QFOJZTQKT6ZEARJ X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: On the uniqueness of DMR's C compiler List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000008583fa0617f54211 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable s/Beety/Beatty/ -- sorry =E1=90=A7 On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:12=E2=80=AFPM Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 1:46=E2=80=AFPM Al Kossow wrot= e: > >> Thoth has been a white whale for me for decades. > > Ditto. Although, I believe the late John Beety had his 'Thoth Thucks" te= e > shirt for years. I believe Kelly Booth still does. > > > >> AFAIK nothing has survived from it. >> > You can argue that V-Kernel and QNX are children of Thoth - but they were > both in a flavor of Waterloo C that did not think ever targeted the PDP-1= 1 > [that might be a misunderstanding WRT Waterloo C]. > >> >> "Decus" (Conroy's) C (transliteration of the assembler Unix C) should >> also be mentioned. >> > Hmmmm, it's a flavor of Dennis' compiler in disguise and was sort of an > end-around for the AT&T lawyers by taking the *.s files, and converting > them to MACRO11, and then > redoing the assembler code to use originally RT11 I/O and later RSX11. > That said, it had its own life and ran on the DEC OSses, not UNIX, so it > probably counts. > That said, I thought Paul was asking about different core compiler > implementations, and I would argue the DECUS/Conroy compiler is the DMR > compiler, while the list I offered was all different core implementations= . > > I'm curious about Jon and Tom's MOD2 compiler. Other than Wirth's, whic= h > targeted the 68000, Lilith, and VAX, I did not know of another for the > PDP-11. Any idea of its origin story? I would have expected it to have > derived from Wirth's Modula subsystem. FWIW: The DEC Mod-II and Mod-III > were new implementations from DEC WRL or SRC (I forget). They targeted > Alpha and I, maybe Vax. I'd have to ask someone like Larry Stewart or Je= ff > Mogul who might know/remember, but I thought that the font end to the DEC > MOD2 compiler might have been partly based on Wirths but rewritten and by > the time of the MOD3 FE was a new one originally written using the previo= us > MOD2 compiler -- but I don't remember that detail. > --0000000000008583fa0617f54211 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
s/Beety/Beatty/=C2=A0 -- sorry
3D""=E1=90= =A7

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:12=E2=80=AFPM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

=

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 1:46=E2=80=AFPM Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
=
Thoth has been a wh= ite whale for me for decades.
Ditto.=C2=A0 Although, I = believe the late John Beety had his 'Thoth Thucks" tee shirt for y= ears.=C2=A0 I believe Kelly Booth still does.

=C2=A0
AFAIK nothing has sur= vived from it.
You can argue that V-Kernel and QNX= are children of Thoth - but they were both in a flavor of Waterloo C that = did not think ever targeted the PDP-11 [that might be a misunderstanding WR= T Waterloo C].=C2=A0

"Decus" (Conroy's) C (transliteration of the assembler Unix C= ) should also be mentioned.
Hmmmm, it's a flav= or of Dennis' compiler in disguise and was sort of an end-around for th= e AT&T lawyers by taking the *.s files, and converting them=C2=A0to MAC= RO11, and then
redoing the assembler code to use origi= nally RT11 I/O and later RSX11.=C2=A0 That said, it had its own life and ra= n on the DEC OSses, not UNIX, so it probably counts.
That said, I thought Paul was asking= about different core compiler implementations, and I would argue the DECUS= /Conroy compiler is the DMR compiler, while the list I offered was all diff= erent core implementations.

I'm curious about Jon and T= om's MOD2 compiler.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Other than Wirth's, which targeted = the 68000, Lilith, and VAX, I did not know of another for the PDP-11.=C2=A0= Any idea of its origin story? I would have expected it to have derived fro= m Wirth's Modula subsystem.=C2=A0 FWIW:=C2=A0 The DEC Mod-II and Mod-II= I were new implementations from DEC WRL or SRC (I forget).=C2=A0 They targe= ted Alpha and I, maybe Vax.=C2=A0 I'd have to ask someone like Larry St= ewart or Jeff Mogul who might know/remember, but I thought that the font en= d to the DEC MOD2 compiler might have been partly based on Wirths but rewri= tten and by the time of the MOD3 FE was a new one originally written using = the previous MOD2 compiler -- but I don't remember that detail.<= /span>
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