From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 6e6bc16f for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 13:05:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DB61C9BA34; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 23:05:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9619BA17; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 23:05:07 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="E3SKBzEc"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 9AE439BA17; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 23:05:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-f41.google.com (mail-wm1-f41.google.com [209.85.128.41]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BF1A9B42B for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2019 23:05:04 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-f41.google.com with SMTP id p74so81728711wme.4 for ; Wed, 07 Aug 2019 06:05:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Uew5+kTFIpLG6n9GwvEJ0wXeRzoRSisJxerFbuMOJtw=; b=E3SKBzEc4MDI1OxH3k4oPw8fDMFVj5XgJ3sSOIMrcVF9qzOmbXrn5xVLRb3nrEXp9x y8j73Cq613tUvgMnqDwpxbXGhIZfs5OHagiFlclUemoNop4DgTfYxJH4bb4YYsxecqlF G/V9Dzx+44Zsmo8zFxMcGku1CfQrYGFK6kCss= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Uew5+kTFIpLG6n9GwvEJ0wXeRzoRSisJxerFbuMOJtw=; b=Hay8Rtq4Lv+Ch+FzBK9VSzNZvVg0aG8Ccak1frs3xWD4Kgk0iK26Kg4xwWoc4ZbZwl nPORRPyUQ7fWgN7E13SdKFWYxSNbADmk/RGU0Hr4p5kY3wyPt+4hNCbPaBiuTsQDn6zE oqC0qolmhDUJFT0MW0dsllnWD9WR2G1v6EZtYCwuZ9auWbC2iw++a63KkYhfK0BW/ZPu sHIY9nbWDNT9yIbfINDzD5y1IoLr3OWIibKvrEeD9ZFb2BFD6r5c/31E7eFHrwGftgPi ZBwueHsrs7Wr7owEKrEsk7I/JmFe97Xd763gnoTpPzP/kPwZntDrM4CjrqxFXWKw5+Fh 4bIQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUkHZYY1grSkk3c4/vyuKRITJ99eQ7DIoXAvofptoJuwpVW9Cyi 365xrTacXty0Ju5EBBPs+7e/sL3lQhzPvP4A6qbnvUaxz1w= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz2kyoNIEaLGgqvqO/0VSHqPrBXo5b/i5TK9ItsxVI3bPnByZo37D/17nU8HhxD/3x+oWcBsuBM0RGO4LR9Z1o= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2015:: with SMTP id g21mr10651080wmg.33.1565183102613; Wed, 07 Aug 2019 06:05:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7236c9d4-40af-bc49-8aee-5c32d869d2eb@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: <7236c9d4-40af-bc49-8aee-5c32d869d2eb@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 09:04:36 -0400 Message-ID: To: Grant Taylor Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d71c04058f8696da" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Pre-init initialization X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Unix Heritage Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000d71c04058f8696da Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" A couple of the commercial systems did this for sure. Linux definitely picked it up from UNIX practices, although I have no idea/memory of who did it first. We used the idea at Stellar (Stellix) and at Masscomp (RTU). IIRC, a couple of others like Pyramid made have created a RAMFS - but it was kicking around the UNIX community for a fairly long time - certainly in the late 1970s - *i.e.* post V7. FWIW: V7 had /stand which was a funky UNIX-like standalone system that some applications could be compiled. The problem was that it was a little different so you would end up seeing #ifdef STAND in code for things like fsck, fsdb, even cat. At Masscomp we ended up with three target environments for a couple of the system maintenance utilities: the OS, /stand and the boot ROMS. This was expensive/a PITA to maintain and keep straight, and in the case of the boot ROM, space was a huge problem. The RAMFS idea was created to get rid of at least /stand and IIRC we were able to drop a number of utilities out of the boot ROM. I'm not sure how far they took it. I left for Stellar and it was always the way Stellix booted. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 7:47 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote: > Do, or did, anything other than Linux use a concept of an initramfs / > initrd to create a pre-(main)-init initialization environment to prepare > the system to execute the (main)-init process? > > > > -- > Grant. . . . > unix || die > > --000000000000d71c04058f8696da Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A couple of the commercial systems did this for sure. L= inux definitely picked it up from UNIX practices, although I have no idea/m= emory of who did it first.=C2=A0 We used the idea at Stellar (Stellix) and = at Masscomp (RTU). IIRC, a couple of others like Pyramid made have created = a RAMFS - but it was kicking around the UNIX community for a fairly long ti= me - certainly in the late 1970s - i.e. post V7.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ">FWIW: V7 had /stand which was a funky UNIX-like standalone system that so= me applications could be compiled.=C2=A0 The problem was that it was a litt= le different so you would end up seeing #ifdef STAND in code for things lik= e fsck, fsdb, even cat.=C2=A0 At Masscomp we ended up with three target env= ironments for a couple of the system maintenance utilities: the OS, /stand = and the boot ROMS. =C2=A0 This was expensive/a PITA to maintain and keep st= raight, and in the case of the boot ROM, space was a huge problem.
=
The RAMFS idea was created to get rid of at least /stand and I= IRC we were able to drop a number of utilities out of the boot ROM.=C2=A0 I= 'm not sure how far they took it. =C2=A0 I left for Stellar and it was = always the way Stellix booted.



On Tue, Aug 6= , 2019 at 7:47 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
Do, = or did, anything other than Linux use a concept of an initramfs /
initrd to create a pre-(main)-init initialization environment to prepare the system to execute the (main)-init process?



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

--000000000000d71c04058f8696da--