From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 16305 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2022 19:50:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 3 Jul 2022 19:50:29 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1304092B; Mon, 4 Jul 2022 05:50:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-f46.google.com (mail-wm1-f46.google.com [209.85.128.46]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A51140922 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2022 05:50:00 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-f46.google.com with SMTP id k129so4292150wme.0 for ; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 12:49:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=azeiZg4LG4fgQlayEBKAvxhPOIgcFUf0Hcrlm2zxOjE=; b=lnCoWAn1pQ5p+LONOI3Rf8rUINE6YecHyYr8NS7QNBZYNWf2pJSsfcAUZFUPx9C5gf 15BmA5kWGY7C2KsXJILs7AeoLbgzAbrXVPjhpd8bbLD2xxPSZ4C/LhRUeVtJNX+a7nRM 9H94ked3oGxkftgmL3ZhcDZw+KY/stMIfFU6w= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=azeiZg4LG4fgQlayEBKAvxhPOIgcFUf0Hcrlm2zxOjE=; b=Zfif4dJAngb0oTdUt9MFB1L9u93Q7i2lf0fGYi7RjcB/vE1oNYtAWKsVL9uPIde0Nu PRPZFQvdAlMcbVIxZ+pvFR7I8pVh0n7EJzZTI6dP1nX7700x61nnpH0rO8R++nLH+h2z yGuhQtmiKkphCQdFBE4NELB3rtPRkIkxqI8V27cgSwJkWcf8rHGILIGGsS1cuJS4ZLVA DyWbQPxwK2zKFD730wGmo7s0L8t9PVGv73GOdLz8uEXHUrL6NmrezXkTFRM7DfKap32F XXKLOGc2bhr6dnOY/l0vgBUi0zKcQSMuKuHibNwVtDXlfJqJWyYKYYQNNoDiL8nHkvv1 DgPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora+mQnbYuKL00b7Cb1YdhScas+ESOgiYrN/ND7vxHfc/PW+1guLJ hLb447Ambdh3CK1AWQTxIMgF90DtfSUZsAMfFWPMXw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tUbqFLzUc0j8LU+2hA0yyAlMajNq1h3Li+SNR2APuO//ehi+0CFDJY56FAphZbg6oiD4v5dPIQeFkqB9L9l5U= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:6a0d:0:b0:3a0:4b6e:b64e with SMTP id f13-20020a1c6a0d000000b003a04b6eb64emr27569463wmc.188.1656877738485; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 12:48:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20220702210244.GU11191@mcvoy.com> <20220703022743.GA15738@mcvoy.com> <20220703143906.GD18597@mcvoy.com> <5E49BE69-8869-473A-B3F5-6744566700F0@iitbombay.org> <08E9845C-CA79-4CBD-B7F1-508F0E5D1AF6@iitbombay.org> In-Reply-To: <08E9845C-CA79-4CBD-B7F1-508F0E5D1AF6@iitbombay.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 15:48:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: Bakul Shah Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000a02b205e2ebe92d" Message-ID-Hash: LP6JGIZKKMDY6KEZBCU74ESSALY22MHY X-Message-ID-Hash: LP6JGIZKKMDY6KEZBCU74ESSALY22MHY X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: steve jenkin , TUHS , Marc Donner X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Thoughts on Licenses List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000000a02b205e2ebe92d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Jul 3, 2022 at 1:48 PM Bakul Shah wrote: > Er.. a "microkernel" without an MMU is basically nothing more than a > thread switcher (not unlike a variety of "realtime" embedded kernels like > threadX and what not). > Argue with Andy and not me and read his book. Andy calls it a message-based uK. Given how they structured it. I would agree. > > I think Tanenbaum's point was that MINIX3 is *nothing* like MINIX1 except > in name. > Having talked to Andy about this in person, as well as looking at the code, I think I differ with your interpretation yes, M3 supports a ton of things M1 did not. But the core API and KPI are supersets. I also know a bit about what Intel uses for the IPMI support as part of my $ day job. Let's just say this is a great deal that is known outside of Intel and a good bit that is not and/or misunderstood. My point that started this rat hole was that Larry made a comment about V7 having little value. I know for a fact Larry's observation was not true. And how we use the core Minix subsystem (*as a basic V7 platform for a single custom application* that allows us to manage the server - as I said to Larry think the LS1-11 on the Vax and the 11/40 on the KL processors) and offered it as a counter-example. It could have been almost anything that you called a thread switcher. A simple V7 was 'good enough' and Minux supplied that for the team. In fact, I can think of other applications where V6 or V7 is more than enough for a lot of the tasks. =E1=90=A7 --0000000000000a02b205e2ebe92d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Jul 3, 2022 at 1:48 = PM Bakul Shah <bakul@iitbombay.or= g> wrote:
Er.. a "microkern= el" without an MMU is basically nothing more than a thread switcher (n= ot unlike a variety of "realtime" embedded kernels like threadX a= nd what not).=C2=A0
Argue with Andy and not me and read his book.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Andy= calls it a message-based uK.=C2=A0 Given how they structured it. I would a= gree.=C2=A0

I think Tanenbaum's point= was that MINIX3 is nothing like MINIX1 except in name.
<= /blockquote>
Having talked to Andy about th= is in person, as well as looking at the code, I think I differ with your in= terpretation=C2=A0

=
yes, M3 supports a ton= of things M1 did not.=C2=A0 But the core API and KPI are supersets.=

= I also know a bit about what Intel uses for the= IPMI support as part of my $ day job. Let's just say this is a great d= eal that is known=C2=A0outside of Intel and a good bit that is not and/or m= isunderstood.

My point that started thi= s rat hole was that Larry made a comment about V7 having little value.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0I know for a fact Larry's observation was not true.=C2=A0 And= how we use the core Minix subsystem (as a basic V7 platform for a singl= e custom application that allows us to manage the server - as I said to= Larry think=C2=A0the=C2=A0LS1-11 on the Vax and the 11/40 on the KL= =C2=A0processors) and offered it as a counter-example.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It could have b= een almost anything that you called a=C2=A0thread switcher.=C2=A0 A simple = V7 was 'good enough' and Minux supplied that for the team.

In fact, I= can think of other applications where V6 or V7 is more than enough for a l= ot of=C2=A0the tasks.



<= /div>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
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