From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 4523 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2020 19:25:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Jul 2020 19:25:47 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6EDD59C8FC; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 05:25:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622149C8DD; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 05:24:40 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="YDMkn0pD"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 89D1B9C8DD; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 05:24:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f41.google.com (mail-qv1-f41.google.com [209.85.219.41]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B789B93D09 for ; Wed, 22 Jul 2020 05:24:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f41.google.com with SMTP id el4so9847504qvb.13 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:24:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NHmUxGG+AMZIRsz3pKObX1kePCRiTRNmegsDI3gHa6U=; b=YDMkn0pDlfyUzosxXqQgR/NvRtpwrKwrGEsBe7t+GzOe+eSx4vsZXItQWGhwwKBp6z pi9o+5NmyZtWdn1Hf1V/EEkZZWFng/9JAE4kevrWaL9DUMk8IxRWZceOg/tzTTuMkEA6 BeSsJ94DLyxLbKl2jcTc7pXWX+EwXuqb2HE3M= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NHmUxGG+AMZIRsz3pKObX1kePCRiTRNmegsDI3gHa6U=; b=bICkoGGmaJByVY5Iz4Mn0N7hpvzZiffxOiYrc8+PfOK3btN2TPbiXKWNNs9keQAaO3 /Hd4UAQCY2OeWcQcWxZFAlVD/PnEeAnjfi0QoQijViBTgQS3GckKlFebyU3XCiomQpiC 1ASrS+JZaEc+0k6yniKx/BZVNdfNxhV7Om2e22VrpNJ/xLGdU1rJsYKc83K0QSslLk9F qjphwCKYExLbcZZdvYJif1ttrMm2bKJGXbjuS/87MApbwNu+nytaGkH1Mgz9Gvf0vAuJ e72qVOOPIWpNYpxFpdd7oRVu2CT1UtqzYlrL5Qr8w3rskYl/FpUIBkezKGYVoh9Ch27u 2gyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533VHsADuk/W8Zv6dZN3NhiVCY/NmQQK3rcfCvhfmro+YD9cjYNQ 8mIinOuQpg6YyNtCoTfkBqJnnY4RtlTS+MrM33n0Gg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx4KH/pxz09HoXUlyCuy4FHe1VJXsEKH5T2SmdOlIPy1YQe20L9wgTejOs5z8OTgsY58wZ7rI6bZuRU0dVCNTo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:a6c:: with SMTP id ef12mr27830107qvb.74.1595359475561; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:24:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <862d8a34-456d-33c1-7ef0-58c6e8089de9@tnetconsulting.net> <202007211822.06LIMBJ4018831@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <202007211822.06LIMBJ4018831@freefriends.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 15:24:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: Aharon Robbins Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d48d4805aaf8928b" Subject: Re: [TUHS] /bin vs /sbin X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list , Grant Taylor Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000d48d4805aaf8928b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:23 PM wrote: > /sbin and /usr/sbin came into being in the late 80s when Berkeley > and USG were standardizing on file system layouts for diskless > workstations; > Sun and DEC and others were also in on this. > Right, I was part of that discussion. Although the real driver economically was the ISVs were getting really annoyed and pushing for a cleaner namespace. *The excuse to compromise was the diskless systems. * I think I may even have a memo or two from the discussion in a file cabinet. So was IBM and CMU IIRC. This is before UI or OSF, but was an effort that was started by the /usr/group folks. Pretty much a similar group behind Heinz's Standard's committee and what would eventually become POSIX for IEEE. Bostic, Jim Issack, Armando, myself, Shannon, are some of the people I remember at the early meetings. But it was still pretty contentious. Getting Bostic to come helped a great deal because without CSRG buying in it was not going to happen. A few years later (post the first POSIX), UI would fund Locus to do the SPEC 1170 study, finding 1170 different interfaces in Unix that an ISV had to deal with to make code portable. But IIRC, that worked started before the big UI vs. OSF battle but completed after it started. > > /sbin specifically was meant to hold the executables meant for use by > root that previously had been in /etc along with config files. > (sbin ==> super-user bin.) > Right... (and a few random strays from /lib if I remember on a couple of systems) > > The idea was that /etc held things specific to a box, while /bin, /sbin, > /usr could be remote mounted from a server. This is also when /home > came into practice as the place to hold home directories. > I offer a slight rewording but agree with intention ... {/usr,}/etc was supposed to be databases that customized the node itself and changed infrequently. {/usr,}/lib was stuff that was also mostly readonly, but did not need customization. {/usr,}/sbin was supposed to be binaries that only an admin needs {/usr,}/bin was simple binaries needed to boot the system {/usr,}/opt was supposed to be were ISV's installed things [IMHO: to bad not enough people use(s) it]. /var was introduced to remove the stuff that was mostly in /usr/spool or /usr/lib to a place for things that were systems specific and updated. As opposed to {/usr,}/tmp which was supposed to be clearly scratch space and shared. Using /usr or not, was a concession to UCB left over from the original Research namespace split leftover from RK05's being 2.5M. By then user directories were all over the place, often in /u1 /u2 /u3, etc... And nobody could agree to what to do. If my memory serves me it was someone like Pat Parsigiean that suggested a whole new name and /home was born. --000000000000d48d4805aaf8928b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:23= PM <arnold@skeeve.com> wrot= e:
/sbin and /us= r/sbin came into being in the late 80s when Berkeley
and USG were standardizing on file system layouts for diskless workstations= ;
Sun and DEC and others were also in on this.
Right= , I was part of that discussion.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Although the real driver econo= mically was the ISVs were getting really annoyed and pushing for a cleaner = namespace.=C2=A0 The excuse to compromise was the diskless systems.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0I think I=C2=A0may even have a=C2=A0memo or two from the disc= ussion in=C2=A0a file cabinet.=C2=A0 =C2=A0So was IBM and CMU IIRC.=C2=A0 T= his is before UI or OSF, but was an effort that was started by the /usr/gro= up folks.=C2=A0 Pretty much a similar=C2=A0group behind Heinz's Standar= d's committee=C2=A0and=C2=A0what would eventually become POSIX for IEEE= .

Bostic, Jim Issack, Armand= o, myself, Shannon, are some of the people I remember=C2=A0at the early mee= tings.=C2=A0 But it was still pretty=C2=A0contentious.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Getting = Bostic to come helped a great deal because without CSRG buying in it was no= t going to happen.

A few y= ears later (post the first POSIX), UI would fund Locus to do the SPEC 1170 = study, finding 1170 different interfaces in Unix that an ISV had to deal wi= th to make code portable.=C2=A0 But IIRC, that worked started before the bi= g UI vs. OSF battle but completed after it started.
=C2=A0

/sbin specifically was meant to hold the executables meant for use by
root that previously had been in /etc along with config files.
(sbin =3D=3D> super-user bin.)
Right... (and a f= ew random strays from /lib if I remember on a couple of systems)

<= /div>
=C2=A0

The idea was that /etc held things specific to a box, while /bin, /sbin, /usr could be remote mounted from a server.=C2=A0 This is also when /home came into practice as the place to hold home directories.
<= div>
I offer a slight rewording but agree with intention=C2=A0 ...
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ">
{/usr,}/etc was supposed to be databases that customized the= node itself and changed infrequently.
{/usr,}/lib was stuff that w= as also mostly readonly, but did not need customization.
{/usr,}/sb= in was supposed to be binaries that only an admin needs
{/usr,}/bin= was simple binaries needed to boot the system
{/usr,}/opt was supp= osed to be were ISV's=C2=A0installed things [IMHO: to bad not enough pe= ople use(s) it].
/var was introduced to remove the stuff that was m= ostly in /usr/spool or /usr/lib to a place for things that were systems spe= cific and updated.=C2=A0 As opposed to {/usr,}/tmp which was supposed to be= clearly scratch space and shared.

Using /usr or not,= was a concession to UCB left over from the original Research namespace spl= it leftover from RK05's being 2.5M.

By then user d= irectories were all over the place, often in /u1 /u2 /u3, etc... And nobody= could agree to what to do.=C2=A0 If my memory serves me it was someone lik= e Pat Parsigiean that suggested a whole new name and /home was born.
<= /div>
--000000000000d48d4805aaf8928b--