From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id bc75434a for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 13:29:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3D4339BAC3; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 23:29:03 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65A0C9BA80; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 23:28:48 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="JOAAke7Q"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7B0729BA80; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 23:28:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wr1-f53.google.com (mail-wr1-f53.google.com [209.85.221.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCFC59BA7E for ; Fri, 2 Aug 2019 23:28:45 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wr1-f53.google.com with SMTP id p17so77170822wrf.11 for ; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 06:28:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zIiyBhp6DS09HW/clRGIFQxOqE4FUrolDvicH8oni/Y=; b=JOAAke7QLabttDVWn5sFdWyWTuP+k++e3ClrVL0sHFi6g2NrVjwvBSwDrJ+dxjGsqQ s49vkK0/Z1jeTFiUTiV7PT2DnqLySbH5WiNz1uEMiQZB/p5A3zodzArcLterlubWgv7f TwCvWW0zQOjX+cPOUVhrLzemnd6W/ceYu7TbA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zIiyBhp6DS09HW/clRGIFQxOqE4FUrolDvicH8oni/Y=; b=sPYD1pj5ojPqdI/MELDqwdPPYM09dmnu+DOh6XlaSKD9IqKz6zTl7PZc0+4r8C9TK3 PNhSPaqabU2goB1f9uf+AxYcvKFUHhAkVGLGkXz6fM84WfNAYfafxs76N9uG4wgc5yLa RQVXZ6K+8s4g+4F7t7mIcuBoS0VBncgcf5G+EceJP4UtElSFtIfl+FwxsH4CEofUGtGn z9VeAbzOSf5w5wTFZHw+Uw36rUcZ+oYlthH0e6zfcuC3WKHJYRBPFuI6FGFRiVYle644 KtT+is4mTo//WAHmFFDc+btsIpsMQ+7N/dGlKRo7D9IoqcfNP0L8rYh/enZZeS0RMS8J nv0g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWR8VxBt3hvDaFYUEF/d4G/IpN1P+w/NOvIWRPriPF/ieSFpQBC dpLQ3jf7JtJ1IffKh63x8s7Iv3xCeymOJFcte2sRNA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwYm4eprqLt0mb4YkLnqi0bGdihHmiOmnz7JC8DncPRZ/u1+KkPYfe85AR0P1tL0q0q5WC67WsTP6Mm4kaTk5s= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ff84:: with SMTP id j4mr42137009wrr.71.1564752524120; Fri, 02 Aug 2019 06:28:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201908011235.x71CZP2B035023@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU> <201908020835.x728ZUal026532@freefriends.org> In-Reply-To: <201908020835.x728ZUal026532@freefriends.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 09:28:18 -0400 Message-ID: To: Aharon Robbins , Doug McIlroy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005ca748058f22568c" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Additional groups and additional directory permissions X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000005ca748058f22568c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The best I can tell/remember is that groups went through 4 phases: 1.) No groups (earliest UNIX) [ I personally never used this except in the V0 retrocomputing] 2.) First group implementation (Thompson) [My first UNIX introduction was with this implementation] 3.) PWB 1.0 (Mashey version) [then saw this post PWB] 4.) BSD 4.2 (wnj version) [and lived this transistion] Each was a little different in semantics. As Doug mentioned, many sites (like Research) really did not need much and groups were really not used that widely. Thompson added something like the Project number of TOPS and some earlier systems. Truth is, it did not help much IMO. It was useful for grouping things like the binaries and keeping some more privileged programs from having to be setuid root. Mashey added features in PWB, primarily because of the RJE/Front end to the Mainframes and the need to have better protections/collections of certain items. But they still were much more like the DEC PPN, were you were running as a single group (i.e. the tuple UID/GID). This lasted a pretty long time, as it worked reasonably well for larger academic systems, where you had a user and were assigned a group, say for a course or class, you might be talking. If you looked at big 4.1 BSN Vaxen like at Purdue/Penn State, *etc.*, that how they were admin'd. But as Doug said, if you were still a small site, the use of groups was still pretty shallow. But, as part of the CSRG support for DARPA, there was a push from the community to have a list of groups that a user could be a part and you carried that list around in a more general manner. The big sites, in particular, were pushing for this because they were using groups as a major feature. wnj implemented same and it would go out widely in 4.2, although >>by memory<< that was in 4.1B or 4.1C first. It's possible Robert Elz may have brought that to Bill with his quota changes, but frankly I've forgotten. There was a lot of work being done to the FS at that point, much less Kirk's rewrite. But as UNIX went back to workstations, the need for a more general group system dropped away until the advent widely used distributed file systems like CMU's AFS and Sun's NFS. Then the concept of a user being in more than one group became much more de rigeur even on a small machine. Clem --0000000000005ca748058f22568c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The best I can tell/remember is that groups went throug= h 4 phases:
1.) No groups (earliest=C2=A0 UNIX) [ I personally neve= r used this except in the V0 retrocomputing]
2.) First group implem= entation (Thompson) [My first UNIX introduction was with this implementatio= n]
3.) PWB 1.0 (Mashey version) [then saw this post PWB]
4.= ) BSD 4.2 (wnj version) [and lived this transistion]

E= ach was a little different in semantics.=C2=A0

As Doug= mentioned, many sites (like Research) really did not need much and groups = were really not used that widely.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thompson added something like= the Project number of TOPS and some earlier systems.=C2=A0 Truth is, it di= d not help much IMO.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It was useful for grouping things like the= binaries and keeping some more privileged programs from having to be setui= d root.

Mashey added features in PWB, primarily becaus= e of the RJE/Front end to the Mainframes and the need to have better protec= tions/collections of certain items.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But they still were much mo= re like the DEC PPN, were you were running as a single group (i.e. the tupl= e UID/GID).=C2=A0 This lasted a pretty long time, as it worked reasonably w= ell for larger academic systems, where you had a user and were assigned a g= roup, say for a course or class, you might be talking.=C2=A0 If you looked = at big 4.1 BSN Vaxen like at Purdue/Penn State, etc., that how they = were admin'd.=C2=A0 But as Doug said, if you were still a small site, t= he use of groups was still pretty shallow.

But, as par= t of the CSRG support for DARPA, there was a push from the community to hav= e a list of groups that a user could be a part and you carried that list ar= ound in a more general manner.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The big sites, in particular, we= re pushing for this because they were using groups as a major feature.=C2= =A0 wnj implemented same and it would go out widely in 4.2, although >&g= t;by memory<< that was in 4.1B or 4.1C first.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It's po= ssible Robert Elz may have brought that to Bill with his quota changes, but= frankly I've forgotten.=C2=A0 =C2=A0There was a lot of work being done= to the FS at that point, much less Kirk's rewrite.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ">But as UNIX went back to workstations, the need for a more general group = system dropped away until the advent widely used distributed file systems l= ike CMU's AFS and Sun's NFS.=C2=A0 Then the concept of a user being= in more than one group became much more de rigeur even on a small machine.=

Clem
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