From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21896 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2022 15:31:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Dec 2022 15:31:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7969342457; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 01:30:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-f41.google.com (mail-ua1-f41.google.com [209.85.222.41]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6F9742452 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 01:30:32 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-f41.google.com with SMTP id n9so3268588uao.13 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 07:30:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=SC1yQnszfgpkbZKCzlC640IqKTRD5mR6CDq/+FY1pyg=; b=BX0Zh+A9+tvzZ6GBzhGnsBHSzYCQyDi8Ssl3ZVZvc9YBYjGLOeRAQPMJVyz3/9UpLR a6R1EA5hhImIyALNF9aIC9/INHHG6TLmYxjYDZrKrH9WZTuS/VQ/QxKb1ghYmle20ccx a4tOdnFc9vsEGU4STeIKzlFo/SLGhmqfm090s= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=SC1yQnszfgpkbZKCzlC640IqKTRD5mR6CDq/+FY1pyg=; b=VW9jXvcKqLdMX2mZVJ3kwKGfOBpnhKxO1crVnwzHBIFtbnJcGhkDj9dyu8qZOTFt+q rHaW7CTSkDhdVVwNBg6B+D819/bWLBDyjLqSPnGh6d+RPdbfhzQFh0AsV73qgSk1dbs+ SEXRTSzrPN4TRmJp+704w03yaFjoP6j2jkauXY6df1gsJdWcx1tPhpV+e5/STXSmTmqW z17rufiHaDpyK4El27RhSeVZZ3VKi9DBYDtBnGbtM//BBy97CLDcjgYS7Fy+EbwCA5z4 bMSw5Qfylv4RbvGwLS/Fi5v6aylrouPINadI9Y5SOkckjxQR53OPo34Si0NugRvhY1sf IbIA== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pmowMTkl8osBju7gTvTYQoh+t/fJD3JXAOmJjShBVEi2J01/iZc oC+FPxbGtXaKA5vUJcxIQg/NI3bFzcUwCTa8rpNji3Qhac/otRCC X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5FUTFC4+IyX0QAAB1kV4MH+7zlRUmhkDZK4E6FAu8g8nQuv1M/sYI74buYeH+Dc9DBTPE6p7UjkwO0+rKkhM8= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:15a5:0:b0:411:336c:b7be with SMTP id i34-20020ab015a5000000b00411336cb7bemr53726398uae.6.1670858971394; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 07:29:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20221211200327.GC8801@mcvoy.com> <8F5B431B-3789-42C7-8E34-0B6A417B41CF@iitbombay.org> <20221212033453.GE8801@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 10:29:04 -0500 Message-ID: To: Andrew Warkentin Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000075d17805efa32bb6" Message-ID-Hash: 7ATTSVDPLXFD4L6AXUKD7FARFFS3DFLM X-Message-ID-Hash: 7ATTSVDPLXFD4L6AXUKD7FARFFS3DFLM X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Clever code (was Re: Re: Stdin Redirect in Cu History/Alternatives? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000075d17805efa32bb6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 12:27 AM Andrew Warkentin wrote: > And yet, for some reason, QNX has had almost no influence on anything > Be careful with a statement like that. It's likely running in something in your car. and very likely to be running in something in the last Boeing or Airbus-based flight you took, and it was used when Amazon made the last delivery to you. It has long been popular in process control/materials handling/robotics/fly-by-wire systems. When a small, very lightweight UNIX-style programming API needed to be used, QNX was often a favorite. I sometimes think QNX must have had a really good salesperson in the 'Rust-Belt.' I know I talked to several fans in companies doing that work. I do know of a least one firm that still uses it. An inexpensive x86 can be designed into a custom controller, and the only 'development' is the customer interface to private HW. The development system is a PC or Vmware on an engineer's desk. After Blackberry bought the company, it's interesting that they seem to be all that is left of BB. But they are still going strong: QNX Neutrino RTOS Funny, I loved Mach (still do), but it tried to be all things to all people. The QNX guys did not. I also think it help in their success -- by the fact that the QNX folks concentrated on RT, while Mach tried to be the replacement for all of BSD. They both have their place ... I'm typing this on my macOS 13.0.1 (Ventura) M1 system, which is just the current flavor of Mach. As Tru64 hacker, as well as one of the folks that work on Intel Paragon, which was OSF/1, all three are Mach based. I also did some work with QNX back in the day and, like Larry, was always very impressed. At one time, I did some consulting in the Rust-Belt, and the executive (*i.e.* -- Havard Business. School types) asked me if *"this= QNX thing their engineers were using -- after all it was not from Microsoft, IBM or DEC, of course.''* [they had converted/were in the process of converting from DEC PMAX-based controllers running Ultrix to PCs running QNX]. My analysis at the time, for a bunch of ex-Fortran Mech E's, had done extremely well. I told the execs then that this is good stuff; it's going to save them buckets of money as it 'just works' (that was the core SW in the automatic 'sorter' that at the time was being done under contract for Amazon -- I know the CEO of that firm and they sold the same basic system to UPS/FedEx/USPS -- they used to have a very cool movie taken during the testing at FedEx with glasses full of champagne moving at 45 miles through the sorter without spilling -- the PMAX would never have been able to do that). Frankly, for anyone learning either about microkernels or RT, I would certainly tell them to look at QNX. Neither topic are what we call 'research' projects as much these days, but both have extremely practical applications. =E1=90=A7 --00000000000075d17805efa32bb6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On M= on, Dec 12, 2022 at 12:27 AM Andrew Warkentin <andreww591@gmail.com> wrote:
And yet, = for some reason, QNX has had almost no influence on anything
Be careful with a statement like = that.=C2=A0 It's likely running in something in=C2=A0your car. and very= likely to be running in something in the last Boeing or Airbus-based fligh= t you took,=C2=A0and it was used when Amazon made=C2=A0the last delivery to= =C2=A0you.=C2=A0 =C2=A0It has long been popular in process control/material= s handling/robotics/fly-by-wire systems.=C2=A0

When a small, very lightweight UNIX-style programm= ing API needed to be used, QNX was often a favorite.

I sometimes th= ink QNX=C2=A0must have had a really=C2=A0good salesperson in the 'Rust-= Belt.'=C2=A0 I know I talked to several fans in companies doing that wo= rk.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I do know of a least=C2=A0one firm that still uses it.=C2= =A0 An inexpensive x86 can be designed into a custom controller, and the on= ly 'development' is the customer interface=C2=A0to private HW.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0The development system is a PC or Vmware on an engineer's des= k.

After Blackberry bought the company, it's interesting that= they seem to be all that is left of BB.=C2=A0 But they are still going str= ong:=C2=A0QNX Neutrino RTO= S

Funny, I loved Mach (still do), but it tried to be all things= to all people.=C2=A0 The QNX guys did not.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I also think it hel= p in their success -- by the fact that the QNX folks concentrated on RT, wh= ile Mach tried to be the replacement for all of BSD.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 They both= have their place ...=C2=A0 I'm typing this on my macOS 13.0.1 (Ventura= ) M1 system, which is just the current flavor of Mach.=C2=A0 As Tru64 hacke= r, as well as one of the folks that work on Intel Paragon, which was OSF/1,= all three are=C2=A0Mach based.

=
I also did some work with QNX back = in the day and, like Larry, was always very impressed.=C2=A0 =C2=A0At one t= ime, I did some consulting in the Rust-Belt, and the executive (i.e.= -- Havard Business. School types) asked me if=C2=A0 "this=C2=A0QNX= thing their engineers were using -- after all it was not from Microsoft, I= BM or DEC, of course.'' [they had converted/were in the process= of converting from DEC PMAX-based controllers running Ultrix to PCs runnin= g QNX].=C2=A0 =C2=A0My analysis at the time, for a bunch of ex-Fortran Mech= E's, had done extremely well.=C2=A0 I told the execs then that this is= good stuff; it's going to save them buckets of money as it 'just w= orks' (that was the core SW in the automatic 'sorter' that at t= he time was being done under contract for Amazon -- I know the CEO of that = firm and they sold the same basic system to UPS/FedEx/USPS -- they used to = have a very cool movie taken during the testing at FedEx with glasses full = of champagne moving at 45 miles through the sorter without spilling -- the = PMAX would never have been able to do that).

Frankly, for anyone le= arning either about microkernels or RT, I would certainly tell them to look= at QNX.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Neither topic are what we call 'research' proj= ects as much these days, but both have extremely practical applications.=C2= =A0

3D""=E1=90=A7
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