From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E8B22560B for ; Wed, 8 May 2024 20:13:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55BA43332; Thu, 9 May 2024 04:13:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-yw1-x112a.google.com (mail-yw1-x112a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112a]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4C4343331 for ; Thu, 9 May 2024 04:12:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-yw1-x112a.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-61df496df01so107207b3.3 for ; Wed, 08 May 2024 11:12:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1715191973; x=1715796773; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Xrce/mXIJV4c0pGkudMQ8Wb0gKQcGGAvgVOVC16Lf24=; b=PQWWUNlKVtn2XNDRLAkvlsje8MCU0AUTG9jIjuXCMGpM24It2t89652A3Nca5Jh0Ea 0UHE0o2x1HRKU8O7UY2WBLXHrowE4YTND/D5nkpyiboxH81X1aIdYPIKYavpw3+/KDCI lB9lOQ54VEIKwtWSjeWZKcqH6ZFC39tcOvzK8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1715191973; x=1715796773; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Xrce/mXIJV4c0pGkudMQ8Wb0gKQcGGAvgVOVC16Lf24=; b=uyCj5u1hr538HF25Zt7kv6aCi8EzSWTGDxZO99UMsZFeIWdvw5+l7XmK1Nd4Yj9Vzx GApgjpGz8Gyi6CqfdoH2uGG8rRUgLRHDAzUtxyAoVKbU2/v6M2RLU9kgCEFrON8Mc5FV 6ZRqSD0dnEZHMfSKPrBDSdxXf9xaC0B9k8ZuFEyVsmMW6z+r69UDtNovbeN+j+KG/gUJ fKqz6p3ohnrkaX8P82lkY1w+YhryLJ+pVvsRewbtQeG0Jrj/BytCxAiCiJ+FWeLw8+xl Y/HcIRF9GFiZZ9xtmeVD7eVaaAyaVYHyPJ2qojOyCTq8e098Dc0WVb57jgOtLXKlyJ6R BwVA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyYlJT6i9FLiX/q3kACnw/NIfVD2nZpPy3NEj0fCx2+nTuTEQK8 Y12USVuiWnb+LFOuhKD91vu48NPlspQ7Nx8rkWnhSYn2Bha2jroWjqoFBEPJbmWqD9gbL5yzEMP NkYivZpijtkD+eMkFFDv10XSCmQ2rqOxonQ4YPEN/Po1vWys= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH7+I/wrwmPoihCJfnzMh9aFaAQFzgqPDCI0OsJvSD9l1vqwVvGoOSMX/867s3rV1U/9mpFkWgG3GeJSEtNUvI= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:600b:b0:61a:b066:3525 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-62085da2c5bmr40253897b3.23.1715191972735; Wed, 08 May 2024 11:12:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <18efd14f-4da6-4771-ad6a-901c6cb6105d@planet.nl> <57a37626-728c-4f34-b08b-a4f521f1db03@planet.nl> <517e03bf-09d2-9e5e-fe21-df17318d4080@bitsavers.org> In-Reply-To: <517e03bf-09d2-9e5e-fe21-df17318d4080@bitsavers.org> From: Clem Cole Date: Wed, 8 May 2024 14:12:15 -0400 Message-ID: To: Al Kossow Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000041c60c0617f5404e" Message-ID-Hash: BNW5OFKRYHYB2FUIL3WM45HSDXPFLGWG X-Message-ID-Hash: BNW5OFKRYHYB2FUIL3WM45HSDXPFLGWG X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: On the uniqueness of DMR's C compiler List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000041c60c0617f5404e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 1:46=E2=80=AFPM Al Kossow wrote: > Thoth has been a white whale for me for decades. Ditto. Although, I believe the late John Beety had his 'Thoth Thucks" tee shirt for years. I believe Kelly Booth still does. > AFAIK nothing has survived from it. > You can argue that V-Kernel and QNX are children of Thoth - but they were both in a flavor of Waterloo C that did not think ever targeted the PDP-11 [that might be a misunderstanding WRT Waterloo C]. > > "Decus" (Conroy's) C (transliteration of the assembler Unix C) should als= o > be mentioned. > Hmmmm, it's a flavor of Dennis' compiler in disguise and was sort of an end-around for the AT&T lawyers by taking the *.s files, and converting them to MACRO11, and then redoing the assembler code to use originally RT11 I/O and later RSX11. That said, it had its own life and ran on the DEC OSses, not UNIX, so it probably counts. That said, I thought Paul was asking about different core compiler implementations, and I would argue the DECUS/Conroy compiler is the DMR compiler, while the list I offered was all different core implementations. I'm curious about Jon and Tom's MOD2 compiler. Other than Wirth's, which targeted the 68000, Lilith, and VAX, I did not know of another for the PDP-11. Any idea of its origin story? I would have expected it to have derived from Wirth's Modula subsystem. FWIW: The DEC Mod-II and Mod-III were new implementations from DEC WRL or SRC (I forget). They targeted Alpha and I, maybe Vax. I'd have to ask someone like Larry Stewart or Jeff Mogul who might know/remember, but I thought that the font end to the DEC MOD2 compiler might have been partly based on Wirths but rewritten and by the time of the MOD3 FE was a new one originally written using the previous MOD2 compiler -- but I don't remember that detail. --00000000000041c60c0617f5404e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 1:46= =E2=80=AFPM Al Kossow <aek@bitsaver= s.org> wrote:
Thoth has been a white whale for me for decades.
D= itto.=C2=A0 Although, I believe the late John Beety had his 'Thoth Thuc= ks" tee shirt for years.=C2=A0 I believe Kelly Booth still does.
=
=C2=A0
You can arg= ue that V-Kernel and QNX are children of Thoth - but they were both in a fl= avor of Waterloo C that did not think ever targeted the PDP-11 [that might = be a misunderstanding WRT Waterloo C].=C2=A0

"Decus" (Conroy's) C (transliteration of the assembler Unix C= ) should also be mentioned.
Hmmmm, it's a flav= or of Dennis' compiler in disguise and was sort of an end-around for th= e AT&T lawyers by taking the *.s files, and converting them=C2=A0to MAC= RO11, and then
redoing the assembler code to use origi= nally RT11 I/O and later RSX11.=C2=A0 That said, it had its own life and ra= n on the DEC OSses, not UNIX, so it probably counts.
That said, I thought Paul was asking= about different core compiler implementations, and I would argue the DECUS= /Conroy compiler is the DMR compiler, while the list I offered was all diff= erent core implementations.

I'm curious about Jon and T= om's MOD2 compiler.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Other than Wirth's, which targeted = the 68000, Lilith, and VAX, I did not know of another for the PDP-11.=C2=A0= Any idea of its origin story? I would have expected it to have derived fro= m Wirth's Modula subsystem.=C2=A0 FWIW:=C2=A0 The DEC Mod-II and Mod-II= I were new implementations from DEC WRL or SRC (I forget).=C2=A0 They targe= ted Alpha and I, maybe Vax.=C2=A0 I'd have to ask someone like Larry St= ewart or Jeff Mogul who might know/remember, but I thought that the font en= d to the DEC MOD2 compiler might have been partly based on Wirths but rewri= tten and by the time of the MOD3 FE was a new one originally written using = the previous MOD2 compiler -- but I don't remember that detail.<= /span>
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