From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 21705 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2020 02:32:09 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Jul 2020 02:32:09 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 68F119BA63; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:32:05 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2667D9BA50; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:30:43 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="I6cHhFr+"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id DD8B99BA32; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:30:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f193.google.com (mail-qk1-f193.google.com [209.85.222.193]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EC069BA30 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:30:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f193.google.com with SMTP id b79so4164325qkg.9 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:30:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZIyvIpc61nuFWw7XUonDxTTGao6WuqcZbmlxOV0albY=; b=I6cHhFr+hyFKjwlj4lVVIjs53ldehZOfoW+iZexCCZBVmKTYn+bBj9fLi+VZbmAxiF j0SGV62XQjUbNJcpg1TLT7fyY5oA4gQ2xWANL4aKF3J8fSnz7sAZwDoGvAxUZOEnMp+X kuD0B0AqxD6mdMgAiqZsdAdhq/H5c8JdV1MmGdHSPRzx04NoMII3zrvRdM4HC0i5SvRq IalHMk8esm/7Q5LDT4iFNeY0XRxclRlZhmG8Y6q2hH6o84hL5ytPI9P5GrRnd7ZvfF9f ZfoMSywPDFakNwD+aCUhiVCS5E8cqfTorpgytThWd2sEbQtVfZwmKoqcJ/h/770rj37H +XfA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZIyvIpc61nuFWw7XUonDxTTGao6WuqcZbmlxOV0albY=; b=LrR3Sfa5Mu5qgwDKkrMRyEjw6RJHzvQcveLoEVALnkQbQ6mj0Erl3irIcl2wbDXFL7 FsW02Ibz0eUMZ/2yYob1uVej67FHAzythaHr1lYmGoK2mfoLKK3TBGFAWagVESpyoXbP VlAuJyzi8rfTTU/gcM4pv8t/GUvtSGdeubzTc/ehIlRZe6mrx3UyDnQh5COjfbN+CPWV AlBAk3zDq9dnyyf4mCZyRejhuq8+3doJBexU8XrklJTDBjwSYROSjZIBRyHOLAoyjf1P dn9/913mO8t2oyrtOhNb67HNlseVamjzQ3VWKBB5Mn6dM1+0qvmPzW344fyF6n4GYGrd uypw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Nzda6OBhsYuDbKo4R7/88cyr/rlixXdZe5rcKSS6bPlVYeFGV /TyGjI89SgavKPm4LfI9Hb43U96UxmHmXXZgkNshEQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxQvpk9YK2vb02AJRpjLI9hongeH2iO10Wenywau0DsTBWkzBInA6BwBgKX4SxwRI8nL28cRTRWHuYXe75leP8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:15ca:: with SMTP id o10mr24114995qkm.57.1595298639370; Mon, 20 Jul 2020 19:30:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <2135afdb-db52-05d2-9af6-24ad36367db3@tnetconsulting.net> <40a70393-894a-4b21-8678-a71bbca4aa69@localhost> <8e7efd45-a84e-cf20-9d30-8222357596a3@tnetconsulting.net> <202007200847.06K8l8DF026646@freefriends.org> <6528890D-947F-4393-8578-5B797AF6FF8E@doomd.net> <20200721015057.GV26294@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20200721015057.GV26294@mcvoy.com> From: Gregg Levine Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 22:30:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] A/UX [was Linux is on-topic] X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Hello! Larry? I'm surprised. I've worked with QNX a few times. I also grok that you're one who has mad respect for QNX. Because I'm one also. It's an interesting OS, ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 9:53 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 06:54:40AM -0600, Andrew Warkentin wrote: > > On 7/20/20, Larry McVoy wrote: > > > This isn't quite the same but Victor Yodaiken wrote a real time kernel > > > that ran all of Linux as a user process. Super cool idea and it worked > > > great, he would demo it sampling the parallel port while Linux was running > > > some X11 perf thing, tarring up /usr and untarring on nfs://server/tmp/usr > > > and doing a ftp transfer. Basically beating the crap out of Linux as > > > hard as he could while running a real time sampler and it never missed. > > > > > > Clem should pay attention, in my opinion, this is how you do Unix and > > > real time. Because Unix is time sharing and throughput, that is the > > > opposite of what real time is. Wedging real time into Unix is a mistake. > > > > > > > QNX manages to do realtime fairly decently while still being > > Unix-like, although it's certainly not a conventional Unix. With a > > multi-server OS with a properly designed microkernel, it is possible > > for realtime threads to more or less ignore the fact that they're > > running on a Unix-like OS (provided that they can access some kind of > > IPC API that closely matches that of the kernel) since all the OS > > services other than the microkernel are running beside them at > > non-realtime priorities, and not underneath them as in a conventional > > OS. It's kind of doing the same thing as running a Unix kernel as a > > process under a realtime kernel, but the Unix environment is > > implemented by servers and libraries instead of a monolithic kernel. > > QNX is awesome. > > I was friends with Dan Hildebrandt, he was one of the 3 people who were > allowed to touch the microkernel code. That kernel could fit easily in > a 4K instruction cache and leave room for other processes. They measured > everything in cache misses, every commit had them thinking about cache > misses. > > I'm definitely a unikernel guy but I had mad respect for QNX, Dan and > I would talk often about stuff, like how would this work in your world > and how would it work in my world. The QNX core team was amazing. > > Sadly, we lost Dan to brain cancer (I think) in 1998. > -- > --- > Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm