From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [45.79.103.53]) by inbox.vuxu.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 5d6e3e93 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 01:26:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id ACE2F9BBDE; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:26:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F27D9B4F3; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:26:32 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="m9XBKNPR"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 3C15A9B4F3; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:26:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qk1-f176.google.com (mail-qk1-f176.google.com [209.85.222.176]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0E439B4F2 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 11:26:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qk1-f176.google.com with SMTP id w18so15769634qki.0 for ; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 18:26:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XFQ27KIIosYtJa3cdtCwM6cAEOlZ6vBB7dY4dRaHaVw=; b=m9XBKNPRcsQDV0ujuD5YzuwMtDMMoANeybV02AGLon4QIWuwJ4pKlrqEV7WsPOgOZu OLxjl7yGUzqj8SeuJycVb1uHlDr12VWLpyNS9p/dF2qS40dRQOjZ6De+1VSXT70TmpEO HLAtvUpGoWzD5P0E3IjM7F3aKh1QdirySjIwue46ua/4tUFuxGdjw7FnfNDP5thWLNSp K9eGanxI+MYiN4T44PHEd/Kv9XnA6a2/P7wQGfO2ohVhJpoEQixrA/RXBN2HWCmryXPj JzsV1neDuYSUA4crvB/ZwHti4zd9qXekUrwDGxgm2IBikxBSSKPUWMSm0m8Sfh50n9Ty 1xKA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XFQ27KIIosYtJa3cdtCwM6cAEOlZ6vBB7dY4dRaHaVw=; b=nvRSbF5CcWndWNbcTSDXODzNDjmnhIHwWow25ai14BdhQn03GMKvj/ZllKJbvt1gvr CaHnSZvbTdj5e4IgqoBf0IUtk0Ry+Vtpc2fuqwgmFu1528Vm/g+n0dNSwsIzrs7JcDU3 wBkdf7ZwLTkd+24Nsciw587TAYklZMnflKpFdOc3sMsqtFbrhZ5JxgeFnP8YwljDiZA2 dc0Grrp1sFjEZ0n9+eEOifx1ChRS+GCIiY29YKcts9916qD1jh8nzOMlf0UNWWj2dP26 4rdOO6Ka22HgG5mrQxTZ3Ex2xVMiL81sh/v+s+5TELSNaTKfZvqbrB8Ordoob8LEO0H5 +D9g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWLiRUIYQ3r8biBYlE/oQfZOVeBfEIffejfmhwUZjgaTKCf39y3 KQFtTtUzt6sTN8/CM+E79SusFliPJqEOuGIj3oEL/DKv X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwdsKJ8Mtr2nXAG65csxmJg9UDnYlcuqccIvgeMyGpxtUa81OgYrv+znMkK6JEyocQBKNvDsqsZRbgUdOkYs5k= X-Received: by 2002:a37:743:: with SMTP id 64mr18909811qkh.175.1566869188640; Mon, 26 Aug 2019 18:26:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <13c5c36e-c84d-e020-d09e-51c8c502dc6d@kilonet.net> In-Reply-To: From: Gregg Levine Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 21:25:51 -0400 Message-ID: To: TUHS main list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [TUHS] If not Linux, then what? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" Hello! having run both FreeBSD and NetBSD and several different examples of Linux, I found that FreeBSD was a bit flaky at the time. NetBSD was good, but for my efforts, I ended up with Slackware, I started with his three something examples, and now I have 11 running. I have tried under SIMH most of the examples that live on the FTP site which will boot. But I still have strong support for practically everything SUN wrote. ----- Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com "This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again." On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 8:49 PM Clem Cole wrote: > > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 7:28 PM Warner Losh wrote: >> >> >> BSD was in decent enough shape at the time to run on PCs. Though it frag= mented early through no fault of Linux. And the AT&T lawsuit created a lot = of FUD in the area without actually protecting System V. It's unclear if an= other thing would have popped up to fill the void... Linux flourished in th= e confusion, but without it, it's hard to know if something else would have= been developed before the AT&T lawsuit settled. > > > > But what really allowed Linux to take off the AT&T vs. UCB/BSDi lawsuit. = At the time Linux, didn't have networking much less a window manager etc..= . so lot of people, mysef included (incorrectly thinking is was a copyrig= ht case) thought we were going to lose a UNIX for our inexpensice (i.e. 'ch= eap' 386 based systems) so we all started started to hack on Linux 0.99xxx = [my first real serious taste was an early Slackware version on a billion fl= oppies fairly soon after Linus made it available and Patrick pulled togethe= r his first distribution]. > > But ... (and as I have point out elsewhere - see > http://technique-societe.cnam.fr/la-recherche-sur-les-systemes-des-pivots= -dans-l-histoire-de-l-informatique-ii-ii-988170.kjsp?RH=3Dcdhte], > .... if AT&T had won the case, all the other UNIX flavors (Linux included= would have had to have been pulled from the market). > So in many ways, this question is not really a fair one. > > AT&T lost the case, and Linux got the ball and ran for it. > > That said, I'll drop into the hypotheical, if AT&T had lost and Linux had= not been there ..... then... I do think some flavor of BSD would have been= the winner. The two wild cards are from Sun and OSF/CMU. As Larry say= s is what about SunOS and Solaris, although the legals of Sun doing that I = wonder. The other question is Mach/OSF (I know Larry does not like the co= debase). > > But one of the *BSD, Mach or an FOSS Sun code base would have had the mos= t legs. > > Clem >