From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 27632 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2022 05:23:33 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 8 Feb 2022 05:23:33 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id AE35B9D0BE; Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:23:27 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B74D995111; Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:22:53 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="FQ5Kclnv"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 5A5A495111; Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:22:49 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-f49.google.com (mail-pj1-f49.google.com [209.85.216.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC5879510A for ; Tue, 8 Feb 2022 15:22:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-f49.google.com with SMTP id t14-20020a17090a3e4e00b001b8f6032d96so330501pjm.2 for ; Mon, 07 Feb 2022 21:22:46 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=6Z8vHuwK80ueTIpqcEUr83Rj+KlmFcBNG6pCEfI28dc=; b=FQ5KclnvPWeeKc5xaCpLusMDpXE2GoibDvW1k7pSsR243RqPpuk+EmGiw3wxBCsC6q sV4dXcRAqGmFupRylGnEWTU5M3RNudDYLWNSQk6bPTwKj5n/wwdxNhfpBp0ScWVNMrF8 o7ddO5TlRowSg6YASS/qILxnYtlfVcQcIjfs51Rc/JIiapXXtIeEqhB+YxfOqe4DvW2R JS1NP8iO11g3ATAltbHbuS1/ToYP6cG4N6PbC5Hr0rGXwaVwNcq9FKWDXa+Qk8VNma8d qWlxq+GDiOsgRS2UL7tdwZsf12HrYDS2sizkf8g/fR89bBrcXN9K1VzrauJhFUf+fm+P VMhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6Z8vHuwK80ueTIpqcEUr83Rj+KlmFcBNG6pCEfI28dc=; b=YzNCvmPIP/as9KxwYdvXzQ8SnzaZUQbb0UYHKfUc+HfdaDWrHuILWed/LlBxLgz+X9 kWI6Guv6k9jdDUdD3MLkhLkh3bBh9nmcbfUJcSGlbkTzZQCR2Ff7skixHLZB3ZoB2szq yG0sSYULDR/gdAAUBBJHVmR//dTpbLG4yslu9tKy+mqdrJSjEqMOxr+Ya+khBtKLWfmw hzH0uWu6u/PYFlE+jSm+l9BCGINH2+Yw4WLMI0nyGPRFPcFGjH0d3GIY3279n35sacOl Rxk9tXiy/WMu/QiSNcC1QsfzZPQwzHa1BV/t65qvS2D76r2AhALTctxHN3thjCxELBEf JNcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531zbjfHFfhym2knxr7hRjHmbj853/jN0Pq8VNrV8tSKf7J6A0Kj qYq8cdjwmsXef7GRW3/DYnA1i89MCJQBrLKsyctx3IeX X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzs0H+C2LbEpWt6zUBZxUggtvlfCB+OW5MBjg8lxjQ5CGF7U3+mDnIlXnq4QGKJoO6JevNC1/6D10u/MqjgIBk= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ab17:: with SMTP id m23mr2564335pjq.212.1644297765912; Mon, 07 Feb 2022 21:22:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6a10:afce:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Feb 2022 21:22:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <21015c2c-2652-bbc3-dbd7-ad3c31f485a2@gmail.com> From: Ed Carp Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 22:22:44 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: wxVOz60MKkZ9UaxtiPzfDy_vEt0 Message-ID: To: Brad Spencer Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] more about Brian... X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" And that reminds me of the old "Three Envelopes" joke: A new CEO takes his seat at the helm of a large corporation He finds three envelopes on his desk, numbered 1 to 3, and a note. "Dear successor, On this desk you find 3 envelopes that will help you in times of a crisis. Open them only in the order they are numbered, and only when you face a crisis that you cannot manage. Best of luck". He stores them in his safe and goes to work. But the economy isn't picking up, the corporation isn't doing too well and the board wants an explanation. He decides it's time for the first envelope. He rips it open and reads: "Blame your predecessor". And he does. He steps up at the press conference and blames everything on the shortcomings and nearsightedness of his predecessor and how he just needs a bit more time to turn things around. Everyone is pleased and he remains CEO. But after a while, the displeasure isn't waning and the corporation isn't doing any better. Another press conference is held and he rips open the next envelope: "Call for reorganizations". And he does. He presents a great reorganization project with no stone remaining unturned, this will surely improve productivity and move the corporation into the future. Everyone's so busy reorganizing that nobody can even notice how the corporation is running worse and worse, until there's really no way to cover it up anymore. He reaches for the third and last envelope, hoping for the great reveal that will save him once and for all. He rips it open and reads: "Prepare 3 envelopes and a note". On 2/6/22, Brad Spencer wrote: > Will Senn writes: > > [snip] > >>> I've done this and I've employed people who have done this. We're >>> a dieing breed, the focus seems to be on programming languages and >>> tools for idiots. People don't want to learn the discipline it takes >>> to work with malloc()/free(). It's sad. >> >> I completely agree. This is ridiculous. Do modern programmer's seriously >> think that the old code wasn't complex or robust? Sheesh, there's code >> out there that has run through more millions of transactions an hour for >> more years than most of these folks have been alive. There's also code >> that's been running without any updates, for decades. Most code written >> by the newbreed won't run for a month without surfacing dozens of bugs. >> Margaret Hamilton would prolly have some choice words for these folks. > > This would appear to be a Not Unix conversation... but... > > So... the idea that code would run that long was not at all valued at > my last job. The management found it simpler and better (for some > definition of better) to just reinvent everything every 3 to 6 years. > In the mean time, the languages used would change. The idea that one > would "have to waste time" figuring out how to use malloc() and free() > properly was not looked upon well when the development time would be > better spend solving the needed higher level problems. In other words > there literally was no interest in creating code that was going to be > maintained for more than about 6 years and in a lot of cases would not > be maintained more than 3 or even 1 year. > > To bring this back to Unix somewhat... When I started there, everything > was a Solaris based private cloud (SmartOS by Joyent) running Java apps. > In the 5 years I was there, the move was from Java to Go, due to the > licensing changes that Oracle made to Java and then a move to > containers. SmartOS has a container technology that is sort of like > Docker, but since the majority of the containers in the world that > people know about are fully Docker in some form with Linux it wasn't as > compatible as required so SmartOS was dumped and everything was redone > in Azure public cloud with Linux and as much of the native Azure stuff > as they could stand to use. Make everything "green field" all of the > time, or something.... > > I didn't really agree with much of this, but I became pretty mercenary > as I got old and the place paid well. > > > > > > > > -- > Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org - KC8VKS - http://anduin.eldar.org >