From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10841 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2023 12:41:05 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Jan 2023 12:41:05 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2515A42556; Wed, 4 Jan 2023 22:40:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-lf1-f41.google.com (mail-lf1-f41.google.com [209.85.167.41]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2DB942555 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2023 22:40:53 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-lf1-f41.google.com with SMTP id m6so39848375lfj.11 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 04:40:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heliconbooks-com.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=x4doz/BqrkAORrXN6+ZPpaeDHYUq28o5z6aBHOuP4hk=; b=0baGHSbDbd+FMG9EIYYGXlj+5kQJ4HyIn3yQYRejZrKRpl1AE3uU4ugzYF/QwBZYF6 qf7ObNWkTzx7Oc42LgRuo68/DugSnssHuu82QpJfvMkXqRmnKH/wJx69VvyiuzltOZ29 qd17yMKw0Dd4a8bwO6JdXzbkyrpyV3nCbkgmdYu7mgrJwuEMJIhW7Bp3UHD3cC+sTD50 iA0SnYGLA9k9mK6KzrCwx2mI/VZGUzyaSi62Q657LQpm0KexzwG2up8EwU7UHvT4z0ho QlRHwS5vgPMsK0Z9SFVFfiYmAuBSnO32HKJfWErL7JmzZ4F5Nt02y6vWRwdZDxtEZ/gJ mz3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=x4doz/BqrkAORrXN6+ZPpaeDHYUq28o5z6aBHOuP4hk=; b=Ct8dt6r0se3yFV4VIQiYzIiZOD7of87Oc95nuxGWfqNzCB9BdT1xnvpd4nP7sNfJWN eqCzhrC1o1TrLY8GQ7tR+iJRPadC1B15p1OuHmBq1U88jAlCHr0A9ybFm0MP03U2qjWa KEvW4QTn2vKJJnf7atTz0f42hDyhSR9XnOf6j8p3LYnLaechIpXm0zGn+G9OrK0wKHjS CfJTm+Y3Wt/DJM4EufWMYfGy41otCTaUwL/vOEW9xdGBjSsoXH3rXEsP6F8gkAMwZp2y 4UMFaCReEMtP2Y6cI0zqKgH+w8fttxXRM/mqU1xEAQUBu/E17AaNiJtG8Ae8Q3eCtVfX 7spw== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krpQTajYjZempAcvKKmzNQi0S/r3s/2HSGDpEPx1rN8Xbv3ds7x pmSYuN8wyPr2RthqP2V98LSAndLKFLKUKmJAaItY/w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXt7LAwdAlQJA6IXudP9ZEuytIuQVyIT6eXK0b2qgklWc4q9nvmQGP20g0+pmrhNUTYAHlGIm3WUrO29dQYSlYA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:261f:b0:4ca:fd2a:d984 with SMTP id bt31-20020a056512261f00b004cafd2ad984mr1595049lfb.445.1672835991590; Wed, 04 Jan 2023 04:39:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <371F8C4D-AAAC-4CD9-9547-3A7AC0C961D0@atvetsystems.com> In-Reply-To: From: Ori Idan Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:39:14 +0200 Message-ID: To: Warner Losh Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000bf84205f16f7b73" Message-ID-Hash: L3QUUAEJSB7INAMY4IJ3I4YTEYPJIL2A X-Message-ID-Hash: L3QUUAEJSB7INAMY4IJ3I4YTEYPJIL2A X-MailFrom: ori@helicontech.co.il X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: segaloco , rob@atvetsystems.com, The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: AT&T UNIX PC (7300) Teardown and Restoration List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000000bf84205f16f7b73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First check using a scope that you have clock signal (on the PCB) this will show if the hardware works or not. As for the serial port, test what level do you have there, I'd expect a level of around -10V --=20 Ori Idan CEO Helicon Books http://www.heliconbooks.com On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 2:58 AM Warner Losh wrote: > > https://www.amazon.com/NOYITO-Module-Conversion-Arduino-communicates/dp/B= 07BJJ1T5G > > is my go-to for when I need a simple one, though something like > > > https://www.amazon.com/NOYITO-Module-Conversion-Arduino-communicates/dp/B= 07BJJ3TZR > > might work better for your setup if you just have more of the TTL gear > than RS-232 gear (I have way too many old RS-232 cables because I never > know when I'll need them again...) > > Warner > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 5:46 PM segaloco wrote: > >> Nope, unfortunately I only know as much as is needed to plug into the >> GPIO RX/TX/GND working on single boards. I wouldn't be surprised if my >> assumption I just run these pins into the D-25 in the right holes is >> bunk...but that's how we learn sometimes. Once I move I should be able t= o >> setup a proper work bench where I can tinker on this sort of thing more >> intentionally rather than haphazardly. So perhaps a silly question for a= n >> expert but a valid one for me. I'll chase that angle and see if it bears >> fruit. >> >> - Matt G. >> ------- Original Message ------- >> On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 4:40 PM, Warner Losh >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 3, 2023, 5:30 PM segaloco via TUHS wrote: >> >>> I'd love to get my hands on a 3B2 someday, this'll be cool if I can get >>> it going but that'd be a much more robust machine. >>> >>> I'm starting to suspect if there isn't any sort of boot ROM that spits >>> out commentary on the UART and that doesn't get flexed until UNIX is up= , I >>> may not be able to get very far. I referred to >>> http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/att/3b1/999-809-010IS_UNIX_PC_Re= mote_Access_1986.pdf >>> for the serial settings and it appears: >>> >>> 9600 baud, 1 stop bit, no parity, 8 data bits >>> >>> And the relevant pins >>> >>> Pin 1 - GND >>> Pin 2 - RX >>> Pin 3 - TX >>> Pin 4 - RTS >>> Pin 5 - CTS >>> Pin 6 - DSR >>> Pin 7 - GND >>> Pin 8 - DCD >>> Pin 20 - DTR >>> >>> So I've plugged my USB-TTY GND/RX/TX into the relevant pins and setup >>> the necessary tty settings. The manual then suggests if running null mo= dem >>> mode to short pin 4 to 5 and then pins 6, 8, and 20 together, presumabl= y >>> omitting any need for modem signalling from the remote machine, doing b= asic >>> serial RX/TX. Unfortunately even with all of this bypassing I get nothi= ng >>> out of the RS-232 port. What I don't know is if I could even expect >>> something or if this is unlikely to bear fruit whether the hardware wor= ks >>> or not. In any case, if I do get this thing running I'll have a writeup= for >>> folks afterwards. If not, then hopefully I can figure out something use= ful >>> to do with this thing rather than junking it. >>> >> >> Silly question... did you level shift to RS 232 levels? You likely did..= . >> but if not... >> >> Warner >> >> - Matt G. >>> ------- Original Message ------- >>> On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 3:53 PM, rob@atvetsystems.com < >>> rob@atvetsystems.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Matt, >>> >>> I=E2=80=99ve got one of these in my garage. I bought it about twenty ye= ars ago >>> as a working system but when I got it home I noticed that the hard disk >>> wasn=E2=80=99t connected but at some point I=E2=80=99d like to get it a= nd my 3b2/300 >>> working. >>> >>> Regards, Rob. >>> >>> On 3 Jan 2023, at 23:27, segaloco via TUHS wrote: >>> >>> And here are some pictures of the guts. >>> >>> https://imgur.com/a/E1ioxZl >>> >>> Various bits inside date this to late 1985. The good news is it at leas= t >>> turns on, but that's about as far as I've gotten with it. The display n= ever >>> turns on, nor do I hear any sounds indicating it tries to start the CRT= . >>> The fans kick on and there it stays until I turn it off. I plugged in a >>> USB-TTY to pins 2, 3, and 7 (RX/TX/GND) and listened at 9600 baud 8 bit= 1 >>> stop no parity and got nothing. Swapped the RX/TX, still nothing. Of >>> course, that's all predicated on the assumption there's something there= to >>> even interact with. I have little faith that whatever UNIX install was = on >>> this is extant. Additionally, it didn't come with a keyboard, so if the= re >>> was some futzing with key combos that would trigger some sort of UART o= ver >>> those lines, I can't do that. I wonder if there are some contacts insid= e I >>> can just poll for activity with this serial connector, not sure how saf= e >>> that is... >>> >>> Anywho, the CPU has a bit of corrosion on the surface, not sure how tha= t >>> bodes for the innards, but this is in kinda rough shape either way. I h= ope >>> I can salvage it but if not, I'm going to at least do some study on the= CRT >>> particulars and see if I can extract and keep the monitor from it, been >>> wanting a smaller CRT to have around for a while. >>> >>> - Matt G. >>> ------- Original Message ------- >>> On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 12:20 PM, segaloco via TUHS < >>> tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote: >>> >>> Good day everyone, just starting a thread for yet another project I'll >>> be tinkering on over time. Picked up a (presumably broken/untested) 730= 0 >>> off eBay to at the very least tear down and get some good pictures of a= nd, >>> with some luck, perhaps get working again. >>> >>> https://imgur.com/a/CExzebl >>> >>> Here are some pictures of the exterior for starters. I'll update this >>> thread when I've got pictures of the guts and also with any info I can >>> glean regarding whether this might be salvageable. The rust on the back= is >>> pretty nasty but I've seen older/worse start up just fine. >>> >>> - Matt G. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> --0000000000000bf84205f16f7b73 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
First check using a scope that you have clock signal = (on the PCB) this will show if the hardware works or not.
As for = the serial port, test what level do you have there, I'd expect a level = of around -10V

--=C2=A0Ori Idan CEO Helicon Books

=




On Wed, Jan 4, 20= 23 at 2:58 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.= com> wrote:

Nope, = unfortunately I only know as much as is needed to plug into the GPIO RX/TX/= GND working on single boards. I wouldn't be surprised if my assumption = I just run these pins into the D-25 in the right holes is bunk...but that&#= 39;s how we learn sometimes. Once I move I should be able to setup a proper= work bench where I can tinker on this sort of thing more intentionally rat= her than haphazardly. So perhaps a silly question for an expert but a valid= one for me. I'll chase that angle and see if it bears fruit.
=

=
- Matt G.<= br>
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 4:40 PM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:<= br>


On Tue, Jan 3, 2023, 5:30 PM segaloco via = TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:
I'd love to get my hands on a 3= B2 someday, this'll be cool if I can get it going but that'd be a m= uch more robust machine.

I'm starting to suspect if there isn't any sort= of boot ROM that spits out commentary on the UART and that doesn't get= flexed until UNIX is up, I may not be able to get very far. I referred to = http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/att/3b1/999-809-010IS= _UNIX_PC_Remote_Access_1986.pdf for the serial settings and it a= ppears:

9600 baud, 1 stop bit, no parity, 8 data bits

And the relevant pins
=

=
Pin 1 - GN= D
Pin= 2 - RX
Pin 3 - TX
Pin 4 - RTS
Pin 5 - CTS
Pin 6 - DSR
Pin 7 - GND
Pin 8 - DCD
Pin 20 - DTR

So I've plugged my = USB-TTY GND/RX/TX into the relevant pins and setup the necessary tty settin= gs. The manual then suggests if running null modem mode to short pin 4 to 5= and then pins 6, 8, and 20 together, presumably omitting any need for mode= m signalling from the remote machine, doing basic serial RX/TX. Unfortunate= ly even with all of this bypassing I get nothing out of the RS-232 port. Wh= at I don't know is if I could even expect something or if this is unlik= ely to bear fruit whether the hardware works or not. In any case, if I do g= et this thing running I'll have a writeup for folks afterwards. If not,= then hopefully I can figure out something useful to do with this thing rat= her than junking it.

Silly question... did you level shift to RS 232 level= s? You likely did... but if not...

Warner

- Matt G.
=
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 3:53 PM, rob@a= tvetsystems.com <rob@atvetsystems.com> wr= ote:

Hello Matt,

I=E2=80=99ve got one of these in= my garage. I bought it about twenty years ago as a working system but when= I got it home I noticed that the hard disk wasn=E2=80=99t connected but at= some point I=E2=80=99d like to get it and my 3b2/300 working.

=
Regards, Rob.

On 3 = Jan 2023, at 23:27, segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org>= ; wrote:

And here are some pictures of the guts.


Various bits ins= ide date this to late 1985. The good news is it at least turns on, but that= 's about as far as I've gotten with it. The display never turns on,= nor do I hear any sounds indicating it tries to start the CRT. The fans ki= ck on and there it stays until I turn it off. I plugged in a USB-TTY to pin= s 2, 3, and 7 (RX/TX/GND) and listened at 9600 baud 8 bit 1 stop no parity = and got nothing. Swapped the RX/TX, still nothing. Of course, that's al= l predicated on the assumption there's something there to even interact= with. I have little faith that whatever UNIX install was on this is extant= . Additionally, it didn't come with a keyboard, so if there was some fu= tzing with key combos that would trigger some sort of UART over those lines= , I can't do that. I wonder if there are some contacts inside I can jus= t poll for activity with this serial connector, not sure how safe that is..= .

Anywho, the CPU has a bit of corrosio= n on the surface, not sure how that bodes for the innards, but this is in k= inda rough shape either way. I hope I can salvage it but if not, I'm go= ing to at least do some study on the CRT particulars and see if I can extra= ct and keep the monitor from it, been wanting a smaller CRT to have around = for a while.

- Matt G.
------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2023 at 12:20 PM, segaloco via TUHS <tuhs@tuhs.org> wrote:

Good day everyone, just starting a thread for yet another = project I'll be tinkering on over time. Picked up a (presumably broken/= untested) 7300 off eBay to at the very least tear down and get some good pi= ctures of and, with some luck, perhaps get working again.





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