[TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Grant Taylor via TUHS]

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Is it okay for me to ask a question about Linux that's from '91~'92?

Does anyone happen to have copies of H.J. Lu's Bootable Root and the 
associated Linux Base System disk images from the early '90s?

I've managed to find a copy of 0.98.pl5-31 bootable root disk.  But I 
can't find any base disks to go along with it.

The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and 
basedisk subdirectories.

Unfortunately all of the mirrors I'm finding of tsx-11 are newer, have 
the basedisk directories, but no image files there in.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[John Gilmore]

> The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and
> basedisk subdirectories.

There's a copy of the tsx-11 archives in the Internet Archive here,
along with 8 other archival CDs from Pacific HiTech, but it doesn't
seem to include the directories you want:

  https://archive.org/details/OfficialRedHatCommercialLiNUXV3.0.3

The same item also has a copy of the old Sunsite archive on 4 CD images.
Was there a mirror of H.J. Lu's early stuff in sunsite?

Searching for "tsx-11" in the search box at the Internet Archive
turns up half a dozen (typically CDROM .ISO) images of various copies
of the tsx-11 archives.

Unfortunately, the Internet Archive never directly crawled tsx-11.mit.edu,
seemingly because it was never accessible via http?

	John
	

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Larry McVoy]

I have to go look but I think I might have this on CD.  I used to have
a drawer full of install cds that went back to the 1990's.  If I don't
follow up, they are gone.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 06:40:45PM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> > The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and
> > basedisk subdirectories.
> 
> There's a copy of the tsx-11 archives in the Internet Archive here,
> along with 8 other archival CDs from Pacific HiTech, but it doesn't
> seem to include the directories you want:
> 
>   https://archive.org/details/OfficialRedHatCommercialLiNUXV3.0.3
> 
> The same item also has a copy of the old Sunsite archive on 4 CD images.
> Was there a mirror of H.J. Lu's early stuff in sunsite?
> 
> Searching for "tsx-11" in the search box at the Internet Archive
> turns up half a dozen (typically CDROM .ISO) images of various copies
> of the tsx-11 archives.
> 
> Unfortunately, the Internet Archive never directly crawled tsx-11.mit.edu,
> seemingly because it was never accessible via http?
> 
> 	John
> 	

-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Larry McVoy]

I looked, don't have it.  There was a red 4 CD set, I want to say it
was ImageMagick but that's the graphics program.  It was a 4 cd set
of at least one Linux distro and a boat load of open source stuff.

It predated redhat so it was huge back in the day, way better to
buy that than spend a bizillion days on ftp over a modem.

H.J. Lu's stuff was on it.  

Does anyone know where he is?  I can go look if that helps.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 06:59:14PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> I have to go look but I think I might have this on CD.  I used to have
> a drawer full of install cds that went back to the 1990's.  If I don't
> follow up, they are gone.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 06:40:45PM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> > > The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and
> > > basedisk subdirectories.
> > 
> > There's a copy of the tsx-11 archives in the Internet Archive here,
> > along with 8 other archival CDs from Pacific HiTech, but it doesn't
> > seem to include the directories you want:
> > 
> >   https://archive.org/details/OfficialRedHatCommercialLiNUXV3.0.3
> > 
> > The same item also has a copy of the old Sunsite archive on 4 CD images.
> > Was there a mirror of H.J. Lu's early stuff in sunsite?
> > 
> > Searching for "tsx-11" in the search box at the Internet Archive
> > turns up half a dozen (typically CDROM .ISO) images of various copies
> > of the tsx-11 archives.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, the Internet Archive never directly crawled tsx-11.mit.edu,
> > seemingly because it was never accessible via http?
> > 
> > 	John
> > 	
> 
> -- 
> ---
> Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 

-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Random832]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, at 23:35, Larry McVoy wrote:
> I looked, don't have it.  There was a red 4 CD set, I want to say it
> was ImageMagick but that's the graphics program.  It was a 4 cd set
> of at least one Linux distro and a boat load of open source stuff.

The CD collection was called InfoMagic, and when he posted his question on Twitter I was able to find a mirror here:

http://grumbeer.dyndns.org/ftp/servers/sunsite/1994-06-28/GCC/basedisk/

As for the internet archive, the CD *might* be this one https://archive.org/details/cdrom-ldr-0694, these entries don't seem to be very well tagged or have listings of contents.

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Ron Pool]

On 7/17/20, 1:28 AM, "TUHS on behalf of Random832" <tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org on behalf of random832@fastmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, at 23:35, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > I looked, don't have it.  There was a red 4 CD set, I want to say it
> > was ImageMagick but that's the graphics program.  It was a 4 cd set
> > of at least one Linux distro and a boat load of open source stuff.
>
> The CD collection was called InfoMagic, and when he posted his question on Twitter I was able to find a mirror here:
>
> http://grumbeer.dyndns.org/ftp/servers/sunsite/1994-06-28/GCC/basedisk/
>
> As for the internet archive, the CD *might* be this one https://archive.org/details/cdrom-ldr-0694, these entries don't seem to be very well tagged or have listings of contents.

FYI, you can get listings of contents of most ISOs, DMGs, ZIPs, etc that are on archive.org.  If you visit an archive.org page like https://archive.org/details/cdrom-ldr-0694, then in the DOWNLOAD OPTIONS section you can click SHOW ALL and that will display a list of all files (including ISOs) that archive.org has squirrelled away, like this:

  Name                                Last modified      Size
  Go to parent directory
  README                              18-Dec-2012 01:48    8.8K
  cdrom-ldr-0694_archive.torrent      01-Sep-2016 14:02   26.8K
  cdrom-ldr-0694_files.xml            21-Jun-2020 06:17    1.6K
  cdrom-ldr-0694_meta.xml             21-Jun-2020 06:17    2.4K
  ldr_0694_disc1.iso (View Contents)  18-Dec-2012 01:43  637.4M
  ldr_0694_disc2.iso (View Contents)  18-Dec-2012 01:44  646.5M
                          
Click on one of the (View Contents) links to view a listing of all files in that archive.  Works for at least .iso, .DMG, .zip, .tar.
                  
-- Ron      

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Grant Taylor via TUHS]

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On 7/16/20 11:18 PM, Random832 wrote:
> The CD collection was called InfoMagic, and when he posted his question 
> on Twitter I was able to find a mirror here:
> 
> http://grumbeer.dyndns.org/ftp/servers/sunsite/1994-06-28/GCC/basedisk/

Unfortunately, neither rootdisk that I've found, 0.98.pl5-31 nor 
0.99.pl14, will access any of the basedisks that I've found.

They will mount, df shows that there is data on them.  But ls says that 
there's no "." file or I get an "XIA-FS: bad directory entry (dir.c 91)" 
error message.

> As for the internet archive, the CD *might* be this one 
> https://archive.org/details/cdrom-ldr-0694, these entries don't seem 
> to be very well tagged or have listings of contents.

I get the same type of errors from this disk too.

I downloaded all the LDR that I could find on I.A. and looked through 
them.  Only '94-06 has basedisk images on them.

I have yet to be able to access any data on any basedisk sets.  :-/



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[tytso]

Sorry for not responding on this thread earlier; I've been pretty
swamped lately.

Xiafs was introduced at about the same time of ext2; Wikipedia states that

   "Initially, Xiafs was more stable than ext2, but being a fairly
   minimalistic modification of the MINIX file system, it was not very
   well suited for future extension."

The first part wasn't quite accurate.  It turns out that xiafs had the
same bug as ext2, but ext2 had the necessary sanity checking so that
it actually issued a warning when the bug was triggered, where xiafs
just silently corrupted the file system.

The real issue was that xiafs was mostly a one-person show (namely
Frank Xia) and he suffered blowback when he tried to rename xiafs to
linuxfs, which was interpreted by many as a marketing effort --- about
as tone-deaf as Stallman trying to jawbone people to rename "Linux" to
"LiGNUx" ten years later.

And xiafs was technically worse compared to ext2, and ext2 had a
larger number of developers.  So xiafs never really stood much of a
chance.

Also, by that point, very few people were actually using HJ's
boot/root disks.  Most developers had moved on to the MCC distribution
by that time, since it was more comprehensive, and it was easier to
bootstrap a working development system.

So to be honest, I had never noticed that HJ was trying to use xiafs
in his boot/root disks.

Cheers,

					- Ted

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Grant Taylor via TUHS]

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On 7/20/20 10:15 PM, tytso@mit.edu wrote:
> Sorry for not responding on this thread earlier; I've been pretty 
> swamped lately.

Better late than never.

I've found that truly interesting threads on TUHS, COFF, cctalk, et al. 
tend to go on for weeks.

> Xiafs was introduced at about the same time of ext2; Wikipedia 
> states that
> 
>     "Initially, Xiafs was more stable than ext2, but being a fairly
>     minimalistic modification of the MINIX file system, it was not very
>     well suited for future extension."
> 
> The first part wasn't quite accurate.  It turns out that xiafs had 
> the same bug as ext2, but ext2 had the necessary sanity checking so 
> that it actually issued a warning when the bug was triggered, where 
> xiafs just silently corrupted the file system.

Now I'm curious what said bug was.

> The real issue was that xiafs was mostly a one-person show (namely 
> Frank Xia) and he suffered blowback when he tried to rename xiafs 
> to linuxfs, which was interpreted by many as a marketing effort --- 
> about as tone-deaf as Stallman trying to jawbone people to rename 
> "Linux" to "LiGNUx" ten years later.

Hum.  :-/

To be perfectly honest, I hadn't heard of Xia-FS until I started messing 
with H.J. Lu's bootable root disk.  I started messing with Linux in late 
'90s.  By then, everything was ext2.

> And xiafs was technically worse compared to ext2, and ext2 had a larger 
> number of developers.  So xiafs never really stood much of a chance.

That makes sense, retrospectively.

> Also, by that point, very few people were actually using HJ's boot/root 
> disks.  Most developers had moved on to the MCC distribution by that 
> time, since it was more comprehensive, and it was easier to bootstrap 
> a working development system.

Ya.  It seems as if H.J. Lu's disk had largely fallen to the annals of 
history by '95.  MCC and SLS had come and gone, being replaced with 
Slackware and Debian by the time that I started messing with Linux.

> So to be honest, I had never noticed that HJ was trying to use xiafs 
> in his boot/root disks.

I can't guarantee that H.J. Lu used xiafs for his bootable root disk.  I 
want to say that he was using the minux file system.  It's the base disk 
images that seem to be using xiafs.

I've found a treasure trove of old Linux disk images on OldLinux [1] and 
am messing with them in Bochs.  (Bochs is working out better than 
VirtualBox.)

[1] http://www.oldlinux.org/



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Petr Titěra]

It was InfoMagic and that set is Linux Developer Resources. You can find
some releases of it on archive.org. I hunt it and similar sets to try to
reconstruct Linux libc release history.

But this is off topic for this list.

Petr Titera

Dne 17. 7. 2020 v 5:35 Larry McVoy napsal(a):
> I looked, don't have it.  There was a red 4 CD set, I want to say it
> was ImageMagick but that's the graphics program.  It was a 4 cd set
> of at least one Linux distro and a boat load of open source stuff.
> 
> It predated redhat so it was huge back in the day, way better to
> buy that than spend a bizillion days on ftp over a modem.
> 
> H.J. Lu's stuff was on it.  
> 
> Does anyone know where he is?  I can go look if that helps.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 06:59:14PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> I have to go look but I think I might have this on CD.  I used to have
>> a drawer full of install cds that went back to the 1990's.  If I don't
>> follow up, they are gone.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 06:40:45PM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
>>>> The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and
>>>> basedisk subdirectories.
>>>
>>> There's a copy of the tsx-11 archives in the Internet Archive here,
>>> along with 8 other archival CDs from Pacific HiTech, but it doesn't
>>> seem to include the directories you want:
>>>
>>>   https://archive.org/details/OfficialRedHatCommercialLiNUXV3.0.3
>>>
>>> The same item also has a copy of the old Sunsite archive on 4 CD images.
>>> Was there a mirror of H.J. Lu's early stuff in sunsite?
>>>
>>> Searching for "tsx-11" in the search box at the Internet Archive
>>> turns up half a dozen (typically CDROM .ISO) images of various copies
>>> of the tsx-11 archives.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the Internet Archive never directly crawled tsx-11.mit.edu,
>>> seemingly because it was never accessible via http?
>>>
>>> 	John
>>> 	
>>
>> -- 
>> ---
>> Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 
> 

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Grant Taylor via TUHS]

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On 7/16/20 11:23 PM, Petr Titěra wrote:
> But this is off topic for this list.

Why is this off topic for this list?

Is it because I'm trying to find software?  Or is it because it's a 
question about Linux?

I'd like to point out that I'm asking about software that is decidedly 
in the broad category of unix and unix like operating systems.  Note the 
lower case u to avoid any licensing issues.  Further, I'm asking about a 
unix (if you will) from 1991, which actually predates 2.11BSD from 1992. 
  I suspect that Warner's discussions about 2.11BSD are decidedly on topic.

So, I ask, why is this off topic for this list?



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Petr Titěra]

Dne 17. 7. 2020 v 7:41 Grant Taylor via TUHS napsal(a):
> On 7/16/20 11:23 PM, Petr Titěra wrote:
>> But this is off topic for this list.
> 
> Why is this off topic for this list?
> 
> Is it because I'm trying to find software?  Or is it because it's a
> question about Linux?

No, I consider my effort to reconstruct Linux libc release history as
off topic communication. If someone think otherwise I would be wery glad.

Petr Titera

> > I'd like to point out that I'm asking about software that is decidedly
> in the broad category of unix and unix like operating systems.  Note the
> lower case u to avoid any licensing issues.  Further, I'm asking about a
> unix (if you will) from 1991, which actually predates 2.11BSD from 1992.
>  I suspect that Warner's discussions about 2.11BSD are decidedly on topic.
> 
> So, I ask, why is this off topic for this list?
> 
> 
> 

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Grant Taylor via TUHS]

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On 7/17/20 12:04 AM, Petr Titěra wrote:
> No, I consider my effort to reconstruct Linux libc release history 
> as off topic communication.

Interesting.  Where can I learn more about your work efforts?

> If someone think otherwise I would be wery glad.

I'm decidedly not an authority on the matter.  But I think there are 
some in the global Unix community that shun Linux, and things (directly) 
related to it because it's not a Unix descended from AT&T.  Hence my 
comment in my original post.

I would love to find a forum for Linux history like TUHS is for Unix 
history.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Larry McVoy]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 09:12:23AM -0600, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote:
> On 7/17/20 12:04 AM, Petr Tit?ra wrote:
> >No, I consider my effort to reconstruct Linux libc release history as off
> >topic communication.
> 
> Interesting.  Where can I learn more about your work efforts?
> 
> >If someone think otherwise I would be wery glad.
> 
> I'm decidedly not an authority on the matter.  But I think there are some in
> the global Unix community that shun Linux, and things (directly) related to
> it because it's not a Unix descended from AT&T.  Hence my comment in my
> original post.
> 
> I would love to find a forum for Linux history like TUHS is for Unix
> history.

Me too.  For the record, I'm fine with Linux on this list but it is
probably up to Warren to decide.

I came from BSD roots, SunOS, but I've been using Linux since maybe 
1994 or 95 as my daily desktop/laptop (and yes, it was pretty sketchy
back then, I've been playing with Linux since before it had TCP/IP,
it's gotten a lot better).

I think there are some legit complaints about Linux but a lot of those
could be said about BSD.  Bell Labs Unix was very terse, they took less
is more as far as you can.  Linux was far more pragmatic, the Linux
/proc is nothing like AT&T /proc, Linux is all strings and has tons
of info and knobs that /proc didn't have.  AT&T /proc is about processes
and Linux /proc is a generic bunghole where you can see everything and
control everything.  It's a bit much but in general, I like the Linux
/proc, it's pleasant being able to poke around without having the write
a C program to grovel through the binary data structures.

That said, /proc came from the time of 100mhz processors, the idea that
you were going to parse all those strings probably gave people heartburn
then.  Now it is fine.

[TUHS] Linux on TUHS [was: H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks]

[salewski]

On 2020-07-17 10:19:16, Larry McVoy spake thus:
> For the record, I'm fine with Linux on this list but it is
> probably up to Warren to decide.

+1


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
a l a n   d.   s a l e w s k i                   salewski@att.net
1024D/FA2C3588 EDFA 195F EDF1 0933 1002  6396 7C92 5CB3 FA2C 3588
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [TUHS] Linux on TUHS [was: H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks]

[Sergio Pedraja]

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+1 too

El vie., 17 jul. 2020 19:44, <salewski@att.net> escribió:

> On 2020-07-17 10:19:16, Larry McVoy spake thus:
> > For the record, I'm fine with Linux on this list but it is
> > probably up to Warren to decide.
>
> +1
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> a l a n   d.   s a l e w s k i                   salewski@att.net
> 1024D/FA2C3588 EDFA 195F EDF1 0933 1002  6396 7C92 5CB3 FA2C 3588
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>

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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Warner Losh]

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On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:13 AM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:

> On 7/17/20 12:04 AM, Petr Titěra wrote:
> > No, I consider my effort to reconstruct Linux libc release history
> > as off topic communication.
>
> Interesting.  Where can I learn more about your work efforts?
>

I'd like to know as well...


> > If someone think otherwise I would be wery glad.
>
> I'm decidedly not an authority on the matter.  But I think there are
> some in the global Unix community that shun Linux, and things (directly)
> related to it because it's not a Unix descended from AT&T.  Hence my
> comment in my original post.
>
> I would love to find a forum for Linux history like TUHS is for Unix
> history.
>

I would too... The early days were fun to live through, but much of what I
recall from the time isn't mentioned much, if at all, anymore.

Warner

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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Adam Thornton]

> 
> I would too... The early days were fun to live through, but much of what I recall from the time isn't mentioned much, if at all, anymore.
> 

I count Linux as a Unix.  It certainly ACTS a lot more like one (and did from day one) than, say, early AIX.

Early Linux was kind of where I came in, so I feel like I actually might have a bit to contribute if we’re talking about it here.

Adam

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Petr Titěra]

Dne 17. 7. 2020 v 19:26 Warner Losh napsal(a):
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 9:13 AM Grant Taylor via TUHS
> <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org <mailto:tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>> wrote:
> 
>     On 7/17/20 12:04 AM, Petr Titěra wrote:
>     > No, I consider my effort to reconstruct Linux libc release history
>     > as off topic communication.
> 
>     Interesting.  Where can I learn more about your work efforts?
> 
> 
> I'd like to know as well...
>  

I will post nearly same list I did send Grant off-list.


This is what I have now (I can provide full listing):

libc-5.4 - quite good coverage some versions only as a patch against
previous version but I was able to find most original distribution
source and binary archives

libc-5.3 - most versions only as patch against older versions (this was
short live series)

libc-5.2 - not much of it was preserved on the net, again short lived
series mostly patches but with wide gaps

libc-5.1 - one of the shortest series (only 4 releases) again I have
mostly patches

libc-5.0 - first used ELF series. I have mostly diffs of it. with only
one full release

libc-4.8 - transitional release to ELF. there was only one version of it
and I think it was never widely used in production. (you must be careful
here as there is another libc4.8 series which is completely different)

libc-4.7 - this was last official a.out series I've got most releases of it

In addition to above I was even able to find CVS repository containing
all changes from 4.6.27 to 5.4.46. Previous repository was unfortunately
destroyed when computer of H.J.Lu crashed on April 6th 1994.

Before version 4.7 thing get worse. These versions are oldest and they
were not archived. Sometimes you can find bits of binaries of those
versions in old Linux distributions but mostly on binary form. Another
problem is that CDs started to be mass published only around 1993 and
you will not find a lot of mirrors so old.

libc-4.6 - I have only few full releases and just some bits like diffs
of includes or release notes

libc-4.5 - only some bits and patches. You can easily find CVS
repository with commits of releases 4.5.7-4.5.19 (not development
repository, just release by release pushed into CVS) as a side note same
author created CVS repository of linux versions from  LINUX_0_99_14 to
LINUX_0_99_15I but these releases are quite easy to find

libc-4.4 - again not much one full release and some bits

libc-4.3 - one full release and some bits

libc-4.2 - only some fixes from mailing lists

libc-4.1 - it seem that I have source of it but nothing more

Versions before 4.1 were released together with compiler

libc-2.2 - only one release, nothing more

libc-1.4 - I have some sources claiming to be package for gcc 1.4 from
1992 but I do not know its exact source (it contains copyright of DJ
Delorie and I do not know if it was distributed with that copyright at
that time). It seems to me that I found GCC binary for this library too
but I was not able to test it.

libc-0.12 - I do not know much about this version.

I did not try to collect binutils for those libraries (I was mostly
after sources) but as I tend to mirror whole tree I think I will get a
lot of those too.

Petr Titera


> 
>     > If someone think otherwise I would be wery glad.
> 
>     I'm decidedly not an authority on the matter.  But I think there are
>     some in the global Unix community that shun Linux, and things
>     (directly)
>     related to it because it's not a Unix descended from AT&T.  Hence my
>     comment in my original post.
> 
>     I would love to find a forum for Linux history like TUHS is for Unix
>     history.
> 
> 
> I would too... The early days were fun to live through, but much of what
> I recall from the time isn't mentioned much, if at all, anymore.
> 
> Warner

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[A. P. Garcia]

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On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:27 PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
> I would love to find a forum for Linux history like TUHS is for Unix
>> history.
>>
>
> I would too... The early days were fun to live through, but much of what I
> recall from the time isn't mentioned much, if at all, anymore.
>
> Warner
>

Those days were fun. I just went down memory lane with the book "Rebel
Code" by Glyn Moody. Good stuff.

How different those days were, for me at least. I was just a Linux
advocate, enthusiast, and hobbyist until 2000 or so, when I started work as
a sysadmin. Red Hat Enterprise Linux was not yet a thing. It was just Red
Hat, i.e. just another distro, just one voice of many that were shaping the
future of the OS. Nowadays, in the corporate world at least, Red Hat IS
Linux, or rather, Linux is whatever Red Hat says it is.

That isn't entirely a bad thing. Gentoo is great for my personal use, in
the same way that FreeBSD is. But if I have to support a few hundred
servers, I'd rather do it with vSphere, RHEL, and Ansible.

>

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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Harald Arnesen]

Grant Taylor via TUHS [17.07.2020 17:12]:

> I'm decidedly not an authority on the matter.  But I think there are 
> some in the global Unix community that shun Linux, and things (directly) 
> related to it because it's not a Unix descended from AT&T.  Hence my 
> comment in my original post.

Dennis Richie seemed to think Linux was a worthy descendant:
<http://www.linuxfocus.org/English/July1999/article79.html>
-- 
Hilsen Harald

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Adam Thornton]

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I usually think of him and Theodore Ts'o in the same context (which is to
say, tsx-11/MIT), so perhaps he would know?  LinkedIn claims he's at Intel
somewhere in the Bay area, but his employment there dates (LinkedIn claims)
to 2003...so, possible, or maybe he just dropped off the radar sometime
between then and now.

Adam

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 8:36 PM Larry McVoy <lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:

> I looked, don't have it.  There was a red 4 CD set, I want to say it
> was ImageMagick but that's the graphics program.  It was a 4 cd set
> of at least one Linux distro and a boat load of open source stuff.
>
> It predated redhat so it was huge back in the day, way better to
> buy that than spend a bizillion days on ftp over a modem.
>
> H.J. Lu's stuff was on it.
>
> Does anyone know where he is?  I can go look if that helps.
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 06:59:14PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > I have to go look but I think I might have this on CD.  I used to have
> > a drawer full of install cds that went back to the 1990's.  If I don't
> > follow up, they are gone.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 06:40:45PM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> > > > The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk
> and
> > > > basedisk subdirectories.
> > >
> > > There's a copy of the tsx-11 archives in the Internet Archive here,
> > > along with 8 other archival CDs from Pacific HiTech, but it doesn't
> > > seem to include the directories you want:
> > >
> > >   https://archive.org/details/OfficialRedHatCommercialLiNUXV3.0.3
> > >
> > > The same item also has a copy of the old Sunsite archive on 4 CD
> images.
> > > Was there a mirror of H.J. Lu's early stuff in sunsite?
> > >
> > > Searching for "tsx-11" in the search box at the Internet Archive
> > > turns up half a dozen (typically CDROM .ISO) images of various copies
> > > of the tsx-11 archives.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the Internet Archive never directly crawled
> tsx-11.mit.edu,
> > > seemingly because it was never accessible via http?
> > >
> > >     John
> > >
> >
> > --
> > ---
> > Larry McVoy                        lm at mcvoy.com
> http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
>
> --
> ---
> Larry McVoy                  lm at mcvoy.com
> http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
>

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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Grant Taylor via TUHS]

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On 7/15/20 10:17 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote:
> Does anyone happen to have copies of H.J. Lu's Bootable Root and the 
> associated Linux Base System disk images from the early '90s?

I manged to find something after sending the email last night.  But I'm 
having trouble accessing them.  As such, I'm still interested to know if 
other people have a copy.

I say trouble accessing them because the HJ 0.99pl7 Bootable Root disk 
can't mount the XiaFS base disk images.  Further, when I try to mount 
them from Slackware 3.1 ('96) after loading the XiaFS module, things 
don't work correctly.  df shows that there is different amounts of 
content on the three base disk images.  But doing an ls on the mount 
point returns an error.  (I don't have the error handy.)

Someone responded to me on Twitter this morning with a link to some 
other files, but I've not yet had an opportunity to try them.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Petr Titěra]

Dne 17. 7. 2020 v 7:30 Grant Taylor via TUHS napsal(a):
> On 7/15/20 10:17 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote:
>> Does anyone happen to have copies of H.J. Lu's Bootable Root and the
>> associated Linux Base System disk images from the early '90s?
> 
> I manged to find something after sending the email last night.  But I'm
> having trouble accessing them.  As such, I'm still interested to know if
> other people have a copy.
> 
> I say trouble accessing them because the HJ 0.99pl7 Bootable Root disk
> can't mount the XiaFS base disk images.  Further, when I try to mount
> them from Slackware 3.1 ('96) after loading the XiaFS module, things
> don't work correctly.  df shows that there is different amounts of
> content on the three base disk images.  But doing an ls on the mount
> point returns an error.  (I don't have the error handy.)

There were some inconsistencies with XiaFS at that time. See this note
from release notes:

  NOTE: If you are using this rootdisk for the kernel 0.99 pl7 and
xiafs. you should run "xfsck -a /dev/xxxxx" on your xiafs partitions
after booting this rootdisk from the floppy drive first. After you have
done that, YOU HAVE TO USE THE KERNEL ON THIS DISK TO ACCESS YOUR XIAFS
PARTITIONS. Please read LILO docs for how to do it. You have to use the
kernel built with Frank Xia's patch for 0.99 pl 7, which is appended
below. THIS PATCH IS ONLY NEEDED BY THE KERNEL 0.99 pl 7. DON'T USE IT
ON ANY OTHER KERNELS.

Petr


> > Someone responded to me on Twitter this morning with a link to some
> other files, but I've not yet had an opportunity to try them.
> 
> 
> 

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Grant Taylor via TUHS]

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At the risk of the probably deserved flames for replying to my own 
original post....

On 7/15/20 10:17 PM, Grant Taylor via TUHS wrote:
> Is it okay for me to ask a question about Linux that's from '91~'92?

It sounds like Linux, as a history / development there of, is generally 
on topic.  Obviously pending comments from Warren.

But I do think that we probably want to avoid turning this into a 
general Linux support forum.  There are many of those already and we 
don't need yet another one.

Just my 2¢ worth.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Jason Stevens]

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I helped a bit sourcing stuff for oldlinux.org

http://oldlinux.org/

Although I don’t get any replies from Jiong anymore.

As always shovelware CD-ROM’s are the best place to find these old things, and newer CD’s get added all the time to archive.org.

The problem is that many are not indexed, so you have to download and trawl yourself…

I’ve been looking for early NetBSD (again) and I was given the following CD’s to check out:
https://archive.org/details/meeting-pearls-1
https://archive.org/details/meeting-pearls-2
https://archive.org/details/macbsd
https://archive.org/details/cdrom-riscos-dev-cds

and
http://grumbeer.dyndns.org/ftp/iso/infomagic/infomagic-1-1-93.iso
http://grumbeer.dyndns.org/ftp/iso/infomagic/infomagic-1-2-94.iso
http://grumbeer.dyndns.org/ftp/iso/infomagic/infomagic-nov94.iso

There was a bit of bleed between the early BSD and Linux on shareware stuff, along with hidden distros of SLS.

Like this one from late ‘92
http://cd.textfiles.com/toomuch/NETWORK/


From: Grant Taylor via TUHS
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:18 PM
To: The Unix Heritage Society
Subject: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

Is it okay for me to ask a question about Linux that's from '91~'92?

Does anyone happen to have copies of H.J. Lu's Bootable Root and the 
associated Linux Base System disk images from the early '90s?

I've managed to find a copy of 0.98.pl5-31 bootable root disk.  But I 
can't find any base disks to go along with it.

The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and 
basedisk subdirectories.

Unfortunately all of the mirrors I'm finding of tsx-11 are newer, have 
the basedisk directories, but no image files there in.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die



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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Sean Dwyer via TUHS]

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 09:33:46AM +0800, Jason Stevens wrote:
> Is it okay for me to ask a question about Linux that's from '91~'92?
> 
> Does anyone happen to have copies of H.J. Lu's Bootable Root and the 
> associated Linux Base System disk images from the early '90s?
> 
> I've managed to find a copy of 0.98.pl5-31 bootable root disk.  But I 
> can't find any base disks to go along with it.
> 
> The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and 
> basedisk subdirectories.
> 
> Unfortunately all of the mirrors I'm finding of tsx-11 are newer, have 
> the basedisk directories, but no image files there in.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
> 

I do have the boot/roots for kernel 0.99 pl 7 from my Yggdrasil disks of
July/August 1995 which I believe are also on archive.org. I used to have disks
from 1994 but they've been lost in time and I only have stuff from 94-97 now,
some of which are on archive.org already. Hope that helps.


-- 
I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise as they fly by.

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Jason Stevens]

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Luckily in the rush to 0.99 the CD-ROM shovelware thing was in full swing so lots of stuff got archived.

It’s the older stuff that was always purged like COFF patches, or OMF patches for older stuff, or even missing stuff from the big projects like Emacs or GCC, and huge missing gaps in other GNU projects of all things.

GCC 0.90-1.21 everything in between these two is missing.  Is it so bad? Well it’s the start of adding 3rd parties code and G++ stuff as well.  Also lots of gaps in libraries.
Things like the core utils, and other user-land stuff is missing and what little I have was snapshotted on DECUS archives.

Much like how binutils and Linux has/is removing a.out the old legacy stuff is being swept out.  Much as everyone else seems to try to kill 32bit stuff which makes running ancient GCC on modern platforms a bit more challenging as I’ll have to do it under emulation.  If I had the time/knowledge a 64bit hosted copy of GCC 1.42 would be cool but I think I may be the only one interested in compiling old Linux/BSD stuff with the original tools on newer (and alien) platforms.

From: Sean Dwyer via TUHS
Sent: Friday, 21 May 2021 6:17 pm
To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 09:33:46AM +0800, Jason Stevens wrote:
> Is it okay for me to ask a question about Linux that's from '91~'92?
> 
> Does anyone happen to have copies of H.J. Lu's Bootable Root and the 
> associated Linux Base System disk images from the early '90s?
> 
> I've managed to find a copy of 0.98.pl5-31 bootable root disk.  But I 
> can't find any base disks to go along with it.
> 
> The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and 
> basedisk subdirectories.
> 
> Unfortunately all of the mirrors I'm finding of tsx-11 are newer, have 
> the basedisk directories, but no image files there in.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
> 

I do have the boot/roots for kernel 0.99 pl 7 from my Yggdrasil disks of
July/August 1995 which I believe are also on archive.org. I used to have disks
from 1994 but they've been lost in time and I only have stuff from 94-97 now,
some of which are on archive.org already. Hope that helps.


-- 
I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise as they fly by.


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Gregg Levine]

Hello!
If it helps atll  the strange people at Ibib managed to rescue the
collection that was running on the Linux distro side of the house, and
it's stored in their historic-linux directory.. Oh and the very early
Slackware stuff is available on the mirror of Slackware's FTP site on
the Mirror Services site at ftp.mirrorservice.org. Incidentally a very
early mirror of the TSX site is also inside that historic-linux
directory.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:13 PM Jason Stevens
<jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
>
> Luckily in the rush to 0.99 the CD-ROM shovelware thing was in full swing so lots of stuff got archived.
>
>
>
> It’s the older stuff that was always purged like COFF patches, or OMF patches for older stuff, or even missing stuff from the big projects like Emacs or GCC, and huge missing gaps in other GNU projects of all things.
>
>
>
> GCC 0.90-1.21 everything in between these two is missing.  Is it so bad? Well it’s the start of adding 3rd parties code and G++ stuff as well.  Also lots of gaps in libraries.
>
> Things like the core utils, and other user-land stuff is missing and what little I have was snapshotted on DECUS archives.
>
>
>
> Much like how binutils and Linux has/is removing a.out the old legacy stuff is being swept out.  Much as everyone else seems to try to kill 32bit stuff which makes running ancient GCC on modern platforms a bit more challenging as I’ll have to do it under emulation.  If I had the time/knowledge a 64bit hosted copy of GCC 1.42 would be cool but I think I may be the only one interested in compiling old Linux/BSD stuff with the original tools on newer (and alien) platforms.
>
>
>
> From: Sean Dwyer via TUHS
> Sent: Friday, 21 May 2021 6:17 pm
> To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 09:33:46AM +0800, Jason Stevens wrote:
>
> > Is it okay for me to ask a question about Linux that's from '91~'92?
>
> > Does anyone happen to have copies of H.J. Lu's Bootable Root and the
>
> > associated Linux Base System disk images from the early '90s?
>
> > I've managed to find a copy of 0.98.pl5-31 bootable root disk.  But I
>
> > can't find any base disks to go along with it.
>
> > The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and
>
> > basedisk subdirectories.
>
> > Unfortunately all of the mirrors I'm finding of tsx-11 are newer, have
>
> > the basedisk directories, but no image files there in.
>
> > --
>
> > Grant. . . .
>
> > unix || die
>
>
>
> I do have the boot/roots for kernel 0.99 pl 7 from my Yggdrasil disks of
>
> July/August 1995 which I believe are also on archive.org. I used to have disks
>
> from 1994 but they've been lost in time and I only have stuff from 94-97 now,
>
> some of which are on archive.org already. Hope that helps.
> --
>
> I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise as they fly by.

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Jason Stevens]

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Super thanks I’ll take a look!

I guess I should also say the attempt at bringing Mach to the Amiga saved a few bits of Mach when they were doing the Net/2 sub system, but then the lawsuit happened and as we all know academia and the world moved away from the microkernel thing (well except for Utah).  But I guess now with the news of SeL4’s demise it’s basically all Linux and NT these days. 



From: Gregg Levine
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2021 9:57 am
To: Jason Stevens
Cc: Sean Dwyer; tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

Hello!
If it helps atll  the strange people at Ibib managed to rescue the
collection that was running on the Linux distro side of the house, and
it's stored in their historic-linux directory.. Oh and the very early
Slackware stuff is available on the mirror of Slackware's FTP site on
the Mirror Services site at ftp.mirrorservice.org. Incidentally a very
early mirror of the TSX site is also inside that historic-linux
directory.
-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8@gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 9:13 PM Jason Stevens
<jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
>
> Luckily in the rush to 0.99 the CD-ROM shovelware thing was in full swing so lots of stuff got archived.
>
>
>
> It’s the older stuff that was always purged like COFF patches, or OMF patches for older stuff, or even missing stuff from the big projects like Emacs or GCC, and huge missing gaps in other GNU projects of all things.
>
>
>
> GCC 0.90-1.21 everything in between these two is missing.  Is it so bad? Well it’s the start of adding 3rd parties code and G++ stuff as well.  Also lots of gaps in libraries.
>
> Things like the core utils, and other user-land stuff is missing and what little I have was snapshotted on DECUS archives.
>
>
>
> Much like how binutils and Linux has/is removing a.out the old legacy stuff is being swept out.  Much as everyone else seems to try to kill 32bit stuff which makes running ancient GCC on modern platforms a bit more challenging as I’ll have to do it under emulation.  If I had the time/knowledge a 64bit hosted copy of GCC 1.42 would be cool but I think I may be the only one interested in compiling old Linux/BSD stuff with the original tools on newer (and alien) platforms.
>
>
>
> From: Sean Dwyer via TUHS
> Sent: Friday, 21 May 2021 6:17 pm
> To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 09:33:46AM +0800, Jason Stevens wrote:
>
> > Is it okay for me to ask a question about Linux that's from '91~'92?
>
> > Does anyone happen to have copies of H.J. Lu's Bootable Root and the
>
> > associated Linux Base System disk images from the early '90s?
>
> > I've managed to find a copy of 0.98.pl5-31 bootable root disk.  But I
>
> > can't find any base disks to go along with it.
>
> > The files used to be on tsx-11.mit.edu:/pub/linux/GCC in rootdisk and
>
> > basedisk subdirectories.
>
> > Unfortunately all of the mirrors I'm finding of tsx-11 are newer, have
>
> > the basedisk directories, but no image files there in.
>
> > --
>
> > Grant. . . .
>
> > unix || die
>
>
>
> I do have the boot/roots for kernel 0.99 pl 7 from my Yggdrasil disks of
>
> July/August 1995 which I believe are also on archive.org. I used to have disks
>
> from 1994 but they've been lost in time and I only have stuff from 94-97 now,
>
> some of which are on archive.org already. Hope that helps.
> --
>
> I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise as they fly by.


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Jason Stevens wrote:
> If I had the time/knowledge a 64bit hosted copy of GCC 1.42 would be
> cool but I think I may be the only one interested in compiling old
> Linux/BSD stuff with the original tools on newer (and alien)
> platforms.

I understand your pain.  I tried to foward port GNU Emacs 16.  I got it
somewhat limping along, but it really wants to live in its natural
4.2BSD-ish habitat.

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Jason Stevens]

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I know I’m going to probably regret this but have you tried 4.3BSD Tahoe?

Not that im looking for an excuse to push more Mach 2.6 onto the world…

From: Lars Brinkhoff
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2021 2:29 pm
To: Jason Stevens
Cc: Sean Dwyer; tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

Jason Stevens wrote:
> If I had the time/knowledge a 64bit hosted copy of GCC 1.42 would be
> cool but I think I may be the only one interested in compiling old
> Linux/BSD stuff with the original tools on newer (and alien)
> platforms.

I understand your pain.  I tried to foward port GNU Emacs 16.  I got it
somewhat limping along, but it really wants to live in its natural
4.2BSD-ish habitat.


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> writes:
> I know I’m going to probably regret this but have you tried 4.3BSD
> Tahoe?

No, but I'd like to see it run on a Tahoe (emulator).  Maybe my vote for
one of the most well known machines (due to BSD) that has seemingly
completely dissapeared off the face of the earth.  Happy to be proved
wrong.

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Jason Stevens]

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It took me years of on and off to finally figure out what the heck a Tahoe even was.

Spoiler for anyone who wasn’t there when it happened it’s a Harris HCX-9.

The config file has this snippet:

GENERIC POWER 6/32 (HCX9)
With other bits that fit the bill in the source.  With that said I don’t think there is any system ROM or firmware dumps or did it use a writeable control store?

But then again there is some movement on an RT emulator and there is the 3b2 stuff so maybe there only needs to be a ‘push’…

I’m far too novice for that kind of thing.

From: Lars Brinkhoff
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2021 4:00 pm
To: Jason Stevens
Cc: Sean Dwyer; tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> writes:
> I know I’m going to probably regret this but have you tried 4.3BSD
> Tahoe?

No, but I'd like to see it run on a Tahoe (emulator).  Maybe my vote for
one of the most well known machines (due to BSD) that has seemingly
completely dissapeared off the face of the earth.  Happy to be proved
wrong.


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[arnold]

The Tahoe was a CISC machine, different from both the RT and the 3B2.
Those emulators might be useful as examples of how to write an emulator,
but they won't help you to boot any code.

I think there were several companies that sold Tahoe architecture
machines, but I don't remember any more.

Arnold

Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:

> It took me years of on and off to finally figure out what the heck a Tahoe even was.
>
> Spoiler for anyone who wasn’t there when it happened it’s a Harris HCX-9.
>
> The config file has this snippet:
>
> GENERIC POWER 6/32 (HCX9)
> With other bits that fit the bill in the source.  With that said I don’t think there is any system ROM or firmware dumps or did it use a writeable control store?
>
> But then again there is some movement on an RT emulator and there is the 3b2 stuff so maybe there only needs to be a ‘push’…
>
> I’m far too novice for that kind of thing.
>
> From: Lars Brinkhoff
> Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2021 4:00 pm
> To: Jason Stevens
> Cc: Sean Dwyer; tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks
>
> Jason Stevens <jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> writes:
> > I know I’m going to probably regret this but have you tried 4.3BSD
> > Tahoe?
>
> No, but I'd like to see it run on a Tahoe (emulator).  Maybe my vote for
> one of the most well known machines (due to BSD) that has seemingly
> completely dissapeared off the face of the earth.  Happy to be proved
> wrong.
>

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Lars Brinkhoff]

Jason Stevens wrote:
> It took me years of on and off to finally figure out what the heck a
> Tahoe even was.  Spoiler for anyone who wasn’t there when it happened
> it’s a Harris HCX-9.
>
> But then again there is some movement on an RT emulator and there is
> the 3b2 stuff so maybe there only needs to be a ‘push’…

Is there even a single shread of documentation though?  It's a daunting
task trying to write an emulator based only on inferring the internal
workings of the machine from 4.3BSD source code.  Mind, the end result
wouldn't be too interesting; hey it works... just like a VAX.

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Clem Cole]

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Really good point -- I saw some years ago, but never owned a copy.
ᐧ

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 3:57 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:

> Jason Stevens wrote:
> > It took me years of on and off to finally figure out what the heck a
> > Tahoe even was.  Spoiler for anyone who wasn’t there when it happened
> > it’s a Harris HCX-9.
> >
> > But then again there is some movement on an RT emulator and there is
> > the 3b2 stuff so maybe there only needs to be a ‘push’…
>
> Is there even a single shread of documentation though?  It's a daunting
> task trying to write an emulator based only on inferring the internal
> workings of the machine from 4.3BSD source code.  Mind, the end result
> wouldn't be too interesting; hey it works... just like a VAX.
>

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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Jason Stevens]

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In the CSRG DVD set there is some cci ports of 4.2BSD… stuff is #ifdef’d Tahoe in there so it’s not hard to pick out but it doesn’t seem to have anything really documents looking.

I could be 100% wrong though, but they just look like ‘clean’ source trees. Not sure if sanitized though.

The assembler shows 182 opcodes …

/*
 * Boot program... arguments passed in r10 and r11 determine
 * whether boot stops to ask for system name and which device
 * boot comes from.
 */

/*      r11 = 0 -> automatic boot, load file '/vmunix' */
/*      r11 = 1 -> ask user for file to load */

The stand/boot sounds awefully vax like with r10/r11… 

From: Clem Cole
Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2021 11:22 pm
To: Lars Brinkhoff
Cc: Jason Stevens; tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

Really good point -- I saw some years ago, but never owned a copy.
ᐧ

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 3:57 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
Jason Stevens wrote:
> It took me years of on and off to finally figure out what the heck a
> Tahoe even was.  Spoiler for anyone who wasn’t there when it happened
> it’s a Harris HCX-9.
>
> But then again there is some movement on an RT emulator and there is
> the 3b2 stuff so maybe there only needs to be a ‘push’…

Is there even a single shread of documentation though?  It's a daunting
task trying to write an emulator based only on inferring the internal
workings of the machine from 4.3BSD source code.  Mind, the end result
wouldn't be too interesting; hey it works... just like a VAX.


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Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Chris Torek]

>The stand/boot sounds awefully vax like with r10/r11

The CSRG folks at the time joked that the Tahoe (CCI) was a
"RISC": a Reused Instruction Set Computer.

A lot of the opcodes were the same as the VAX except that they
were nybble-swapped!

Chris

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Al Kossow]

On 5/26/21 12:45 AM, Jason Stevens wrote:

> GENERIC POWER 6/32 (HCX9)
> 
> With other bits that fit the bill in the source.  With that said I don’t think there is any system ROM or firmware dumps or did it use a 
> writeable control store?
> 
> But then again there is some movement on an RT emulator and there is the 3b2 stuff so maybe there only needs to be a ‘push’…
>

Harris, Unisys and others OEMed it from CCI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Consoles_Inc.


It is probably a lost architecture now like Pyramid and to some extent Ridge
because the vendor never released architecture or service documentation.

I managed to save one Ridge-32, docs and software.

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Larry McVoy]

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 07:06:22AM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:
> On 5/26/21 12:45 AM, Jason Stevens wrote:
> 
> >GENERIC POWER 6/32 (HCX9)
> >
> >With other bits that fit the bill in the source.?? With that said I
> >don???t think there is any system ROM or firmware dumps or did it use a
> >writeable control store?
> >
> >But then again there is some movement on an RT emulator and there is the 3b2 stuff so maybe there only needs to be a ???push??????
> >
> 
> Harris, Unisys and others OEMed it from CCI
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Consoles_Inc.
> 
> 
> It is probably a lost architecture now like Pyramid and to some extent Ridge
> because the vendor never released architecture or service documentation.
> 
> I managed to save one Ridge-32, docs and software.

My wife worked at Ridge, if there is any interest in that machine I can
see if she can dig something up.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 

Re: [TUHS] H.J. Lu Bootable Root & Base System disks

[Clem Cole]

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On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 3:45 AM Jason Stevens <
jsteve@superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:

> It took me years of on and off to finally figure out what the heck a Tahoe
> even was.
>
>
>
> Spoiler for anyone who wasn’t there when it happened it’s a Harris HCX-9.
>
Hmm - that may be a private label from Harris, but the Tahoe was the
development name for the CCI Power 6/32 machine from Rochester, NY.  There
had been some level of desire by the Arpa steering committee to have CSRG
work with something other than DEC as a reference.   Since Bill had gone to
Sun by then (from the outside looking at that point) there seemed like
there was concern about looking too friendly to anyone manufacturer such as
Sun to an extent has CSRG had been with DEC.  What I don't know is if CSRG
picked it or the Steering Committee did, I would >>guess<< the later.

Clem
ᐧ

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