From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 22684 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2021 05:22:00 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Feb 2021 05:22:00 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id BEE6C9C1DD; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:21:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 305479BA43; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:21:41 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="jTa26amD"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6F7569BA43; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:21:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-io1-f52.google.com (mail-io1-f52.google.com [209.85.166.52]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EA639BA42 for ; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:21:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-io1-f52.google.com with SMTP id f6so17559753ioz.5 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 21:21:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=bGA7Jjes1gD1IlOcYsWbDOKj5Jw6iToGk/bCxVmc/5s=; b=jTa26amDDwb3dilP6Ly4kqMoSDXjCrrZA+ZFRicHcmLDLqnLUaRwXOr07MPu2JIOMW owvycoIjKdyxzEPdWSLyX4NiIC6nH1Tp2Za9vSwgi6WoIyfxurpXv07m5d1Jfs6DIRdB nOZil4NlR2oXqVkp06YbJrOLQeLltm1s2Lps0g219LGrwK46WOoJ1MJTr3U4gu8wEQf3 8CCSNwEUjJnwGnuljr1bDzZ5s3ZXlh7TWVCutJtjxk7rrgY3NBFTi5E3VKfInI22QMKB FqyZFzfjEizawOxB+qST06sT+1rrOlALKoOE8pZAQkehgR45Clg5J7wNuR7/4ZmMYfMf e2dw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=bGA7Jjes1gD1IlOcYsWbDOKj5Jw6iToGk/bCxVmc/5s=; b=ZNWff4z6RUTIlwNblYluUA3G54JOD/YCQp//TLOXJrJar+VfvkuGcMQnsH9eZVpMMT E7IS8I3FU3dlq53Q6QhBs9tlc22rxO7x+Vpel695ii9xBgvRj1YZNpKR/H/OXaOOIPav Rxg6KaChv6FbAqeOISssazblF74Of74ckEi8R88wa6GZwTQAw8amKtQPUhWJmFV4ZIsv H/hswu1egt2xF8y26hMENlvQlsb3ZCIQPmm4RjTmWwg1jgfyjd//3kp7ngZVR6JhHvqM otK3st2WISJF+Xj52IsZlS4uZ9KDt9NiD2SNGJAyaP+ehaP35oMaLqHN9hPevlfgWtiT 4u/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532MSpWWeXKxsnMzal18Ve+yDjev2AINT4aI/+tuAbVXAO9R2oK0 KFaVD8UEEz7wySwFLED/N8d/DIEBu+L1eAxEgRsfyCtJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy2vbV0f2HY5fgMkzZHnjLYYMYbaCSObi8tb61ctJWX70sfO9aFz78fiQv/mnz3PvP3bCQ2iISUnq+nd0VCe/g= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:8807:: with SMTP id l7mr17933733ioj.23.1612848097791; Mon, 08 Feb 2021 21:21:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ad5:48a1:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Feb 2021 21:21:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Andrew Warkentin Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 22:21:36 -0700 Message-ID: To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Macs and future unix derivatives X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" On 2/8/21, M Douglas McIlroy wrote: > > How many of roughly 500 system calls (to say nothing of uncounted > ioctl's) do you think are necessary for writing those few crucial > capabilities that distinguish Linux from v7? There is > undeniably bloat, but only a sliver of it contributes to the > distinctive utility of today's systems. > > Or consider this. Unix grew by about 39 system calls in its first > decade, but an average of 40 > per decade ever since. Is this accelerated growth more symptomatic of > maturity or of cancer? > > Doug > I'd say probably the latter. There's no good reason I can see for the proliferation of system calls. It should be possible to write a system where everything truly is a file, and reduce the actual primitives to basically just (variants of) read() and write(), with absolutely everything else (even other file APIs such as open()/close()) implemented on top of those. That's my plan for UX/RT. Extreme minimalism of primitives should make things more manageable, especially as far as access control and extensibility go.