From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 2236 invoked from network); 13 Dec 2022 02:02:05 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 13 Dec 2022 02:02:05 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0A3C4237B; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 12:01:42 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ed1-f49.google.com (mail-ed1-f49.google.com [209.85.208.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8E7E41C64 for ; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 12:01:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ed1-f49.google.com with SMTP id e13so15777270edj.7 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 18:01:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Kds69QnZWqV6z86/0NrjrqAP5YtwpoO1uAd4XmQ8y9U=; b=lv/n1dBrcrNzvnI039pP0UYS8oKY8W8be2YHEGfSEe57taxl6Q3EClTTHKZbC+UD8y jx2PFUy8LWE9+0gRPIoES1or4E2WYiHwMB+cOuD3pyaoyKCPtSoHy1MBI94ucqdiZ13u un+NHT7TFTQcTaQ9292g+MsMCNQzol3OkheTry+atF7Ni2YbsmDE5dDLPm+52qC/wKFp O3daSOdVytz7igRSjfsl/yBIsvLUlqodQxEr16E8hgBBUzE9TKoOcKwS1/BBHuahSfL/ AIwGjENKTl+PDP2SB4B3F+Og4B8OmopWw1TFgi2JGR+PCbrT739MJ4JuD5ITayxD7e/c mKkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Kds69QnZWqV6z86/0NrjrqAP5YtwpoO1uAd4XmQ8y9U=; b=6zY2tKByJ9lhdf/TWDOQVFd84+7t6xxANHPdQRRyMbED+bB47QVsIs5rkOnpVesuP2 0eEYDvt3cQ02XKXnk6Qviv7pXbFCZGzRH1c0V2Ynn/qMHRoEx6uVTBePJBswrIkbNOAe BqSnRUwyDge131jqppZPIhLDJoonZcuwjD+k001DvfPFufmXJOX1qiVw56mmYX4F6IFp ORh6tIVz29iKep2Lnbjm3l7EzLDz2KZFsyjpPIlhNkdisMSvDQxCff7hZl3L+oLO/nAE vHUcRc5GtLrwgcc09y0mxce2u0LW2qS20t5z7IQ6juN52O2O2WqzVY1uLr86bP9m6+S+ 2hOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pl0Hjp6F/LLxawSqcBKSmKNjLWwFVwnmVANfnwNarkUbNKrLrP8 DWLuGf1biful1qsamGoqjYMMz6gp1onWfYD4n4IxT535 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5qLaVNtGtBpszoyRchV5dg9D4onrucGNjGKV2w0VwglNoEHA60ehpUAtso8aFV9qAHD6TjAGtZX8JYs+5s3/I= X-Received: by 2002:a50:ff08:0:b0:461:dbcc:5176 with SMTP id a8-20020a50ff08000000b00461dbcc5176mr74427278edu.53.1670896835633; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 18:00:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:907:767c:b0:7c1:4150:c763 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 18:00:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20221211200327.GC8801@mcvoy.com> <8F5B431B-3789-42C7-8E34-0B6A417B41CF@iitbombay.org> <20221212033453.GE8801@mcvoy.com> From: Andrew Warkentin Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2022 19:00:34 -0700 Message-ID: To: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: JHRYGFCZCFWZEJWFPZHLZDWG6ILHQBLI X-Message-ID-Hash: JHRYGFCZCFWZEJWFPZHLZDWG6ILHQBLI X-MailFrom: andreww591@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Clever code (was Re: Re: Stdin Redirect in Cu History/Alternatives? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 12/12/22, Clem Cole wrote: > On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 12:27 AM Andrew Warkentin > wrote: > >> And yet, for some reason, QNX has had almost no influence on anything >> > Be careful with a statement like that. It's likely running in something > in your car. and very likely to be running in something in the last Boeing > or Airbus-based flight you took, and it was used when Amazon made the last > delivery to you. It has long been popular in process control/materials > handling/robotics/fly-by-wire systems. > I'm well aware that QNX has been extremely successful commercially and can be found in a wide range of embedded systems. I'm specifically talking about architectural influence on other OSes. The only OSes with significant QNX influence to reach anything resembling a mature state of which I am aware are VSTa and WiNGs , both of which have been abandoned for quite a while. Besides those two, there was also OpenBLT, which was able to run a simple shell and a few basic utilities from its boot image but not much more, and RadiOS, which was abandoned at a point where it couldn't run much more than a hello world. I'm also working on my own QNX-like OS like I said earlier, although it doesn't run user programs yet (I'm working on the VFS and IPC transport layer at the moment). The extensive commercial success of QNX makes it even more surprising to me that it has had so little architectural influence. Similarly, I don't get why people who bash microkernels always seem to think that all of them are like Mach despite QNX being quite successful. On 12/12/22, Larry McVoy wrote: > It's been decades since I've used it, my comments are based on the QNX that > predated their POSIX conformance. It was extremely light weight, fast, > and used as little memory as possible. I literally had 10 active logins > (tty) with people editing and compiling on a 256KB 80286. Nothing else > came close. But it wasn't POSIX so it might be more bloated today. > QNX 4 and Neutrino are heavier than QNX "Classic", but they're still fairly lightweight. QNX 4 had the fairly well-known demo disk with a Photon desktop and browser on a single 1.4M floppy. Neutrino never had anything quite like that (the smallest official live CD images of the early versions are something like 60M in size) but it's still possible to build images with it that are pretty small.