From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26152 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2022 03:10:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Dec 2022 03:10:47 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD5E42431; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:10:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ed1-f49.google.com (mail-ed1-f49.google.com [209.85.208.49]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 693BE42430 for ; Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:10:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ed1-f49.google.com with SMTP id c17so11001845edj.13 for ; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 19:10:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VBS7opB6bz76L2W47bOYGTStVS723RJbmn8LCGC0e0Y=; b=OSehfdT8Uw6vqAv6BvVMzn/OX1c5p7vZ9sybtdNrQNa/vuwX7g6TyK4A4hq4tAmpj3 mC/mq03uoZgDy0VZ304oLvct4n97Qc7O41UbEbGEEhXwC7gu70Zfc/EIoueqQoHdTFPG 2PrYpuSsNtNHE77mWW2yrrdYG7BmgYSjakPausoXENKF711WJdBxv0lM/CR/+47A8d8n xFOr1+kt7JX31DOD8f0FpSuFAoobdXouzr3PqTJOV6/W2W3G2fWQ34NwGDYgShgxXNEK 2krCVX78899YmBtNmKytdh4chLcGdtveDJZWkxMoYmJ25iV04uBBhSO778GZVnV/pSoO n4Mw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VBS7opB6bz76L2W47bOYGTStVS723RJbmn8LCGC0e0Y=; b=Mj13yocXzdY4TnZD8KfzKt851yXbLHZ2OEeMNFIBHf5sKE8b5xxK6VWaer86Bx/4lt 1ek7eR504uNiqUHnRi+MXf1jaZmHl8AggC+Unddjriu/Sbkbe13nzcqEW8a3fCBPBjk8 NGvgrA0A1av0pz8NN8a9VmcJDcO+xPOrONms3ng4OUV1bn6uddtD8Is+nz/odr1WRMoG Og/lh/dAXaJbISrzuQ4YH0KsgfgispayCQDDccVoFRIy8/5Se7MtJk1fAxvBRvQmWxK8 3R8LbQOW9LAylg5BuT7+9BGjLRrmlpfxMsIhT27Bm4pl+3uhsxoXj6y7o6u167DAxaLY /Uaw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5plELxGSKPVCcvR4+N6kSK5sWR0bnprTZ7VDZ0kXptLNpVStmM7h 34d8HF5p+IXfWFoF9foLVagsJL2zk1S8NFzdBxhkHOqu X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5Fz+OIQeh0XW52VE+GOvQ6+10rORq2CkfFwmMbq6VEHL6+qWx5YAnx3N65mbsOnzbPmOQZ324N3ukYUTLpXkM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:549:b0:46c:38a3:849f with SMTP id i9-20020a056402054900b0046c38a3849fmr22591741edx.279.1670814573971; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 19:09:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:907:767c:b0:7c1:4150:c763 with HTTP; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 19:09:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8F5B431B-3789-42C7-8E34-0B6A417B41CF@iitbombay.org> References: <20221211200327.GC8801@mcvoy.com> <8F5B431B-3789-42C7-8E34-0B6A417B41CF@iitbombay.org> From: Andrew Warkentin Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 20:09:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: tuhs@tuhs.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: 4CN35QYDMD37D5MQP2VIZRCGOSJGTPUM X-Message-ID-Hash: 4CN35QYDMD37D5MQP2VIZRCGOSJGTPUM X-MailFrom: andreww591@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Clever code (was Re: Re: Stdin Redirect in Cu History/Alternatives? List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 12/11/22, Bakul Shah wrote: > > > Agree that clear code is preferable to complicated code. But in practice > people sacrifice clarity for performance improvement all the time. Look > at the kernel code of any modern os. Everybody pays lip service to this > but most anything other than toy programs ends up getting needlessly > complicated over time. As an example, building "Unix as a service" as > user processes on top of a small microkernel could provide the same > functionality using much clearer and much less code but it would be > slower so we don't do it. Plan9 sort of went in that direction and it > is much simpler (but that could also be because it is not hacked on so > much). > It's not necessarily true that microkernels are significantly slower. They mostly got that reputation because of Mach and kernels like it with their heavyweight IPC. Lightweight microkernels like QNX and the L4 family generally have significantly better performance (in fact, QNX 4 outperformed SysV/386 back in the 90s on certain benchmarks, and a proof-of-concept network driver on a current version of seL4 is significantly faster than a Linux network driver).