From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57DA26DDD for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2024 01:08:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E140843332; Thu, 6 Jun 2024 09:08:12 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-il1-x12d.google.com (mail-il1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D8B143330 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2024 09:08:06 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-il1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-37491216a53so1581635ab.2 for ; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 16:08:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1717628884; x=1718233684; darn=tuhs.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=R8uUD+cSHNjPPrzlOSh1LVVuGbtpcbkzhhRAm6VHHYc=; b=DVZHjsl9Grbv6kTy+JPOWsK/8jTSnCAwK9iJXz2PnV/13KhWNFlB5399gkozym55v8 3srku7lmm3FHi0RAMTgyW+rFpLxJp+0DHrmsdvImw+CpLtBPg+pbKPIq6kWciThybYDQ 2bhdRfaCUYfADNxamOaXd1zB1ZbKBhgQkf5zQ+IL5sy+s3SN+/WlsPcr4wvH4UJovGGA qSMdwRx7PBMW8Viesfh9RwVgGp+GJ9lpLFP8jhkm4BlYxHnyVgJZ6Wi7jaO1Pvoyt/DZ 1RBlrRg3VQTfecb4Ahn/jouoejQjeMIgBXmQgX6GYYVSiu6crOon0Gu9ZcGqXgOSPX5C wzzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1717628884; x=1718233684; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=R8uUD+cSHNjPPrzlOSh1LVVuGbtpcbkzhhRAm6VHHYc=; b=J1ajy6qm/OmUn2aXKtGYDXeg5XbHUhQFXNqnUiGoxfTL7I5LXUGdjFx6DeYuHs69MI Rsdg/CQJLpwNFoLjsTAwbdlhoSqXCURW1HTaVhxZMfuuSeZQBrw0v2t1yORqGD8uoQd8 AKwXTyVkd3Mhu/v4wzcLrvc7PJJTMJI3K7E8RT4ka0oHEOspQ/qasZ2cGfEBvrUcocia oNwlBlAMVLjUQAY3L1UwaNO2KEMpNPRa9F1TXb21d9X5ucGKppN/6n4IU/bYFgsEZEjS 3sUuQg2ppEpOc4H3/5S1UrAW0qTLWQUSmo2+soHYcIrCugSsAlizHtLwjNlSwJWpqFkh Qcgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzj4Utb1VFJSt1wEJkPhfAgYiQJ/GJ6TAlRkSSvywivkvjLvKJb cATeYVsOSzsPoD2Nwdg2CNXz9TjPGwBPsAK0ZzJC+qkdK82xRlTMLqqUwWipHmnqEaJZ+9+yEU1 ZY+UUCxhTNPY4xXHm3EbJg17+ohPQdw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGdP6CNaNOdGBRh59/CUKBgf2Tz3GKXvKJGE/0Xlx2U5kc/+y+4HsDdRCgY6CazwzUkbby4anXqp+KVwIqCRUM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1946:b0:374:ada1:296b with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-374b1ef30a9mr39207695ab.8.1717628884113; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 16:08:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1324869037.1755756.1717582639424.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1324869037.1755756.1717582639424@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: From: Andrew Warkentin Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 17:07:50 -0600 Message-ID: To: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: NC4AFDLPPUJAE7XUTZLYHZ64FVNSJPRB X-Message-ID-Hash: NC4AFDLPPUJAE7XUTZLYHZ64FVNSJPRB X-MailFrom: andreww591@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: most direct Unix descendant List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 12:02=E2=80=AFPM ron minnich wr= ote: > > You could argue that the most direct descendant is the one in which all r= esources are presented and accessed via open/read/write/close. > > If your kernel has separate system calls for reading directories, or sett= ing up network connections, or debugging processes, then you may not be a = direct descendant, at least philosophically (and, yes, I know about ptrace = ...) > > But your kernel might be Plan 9, which at least to me, is the direct desc= endant. :-) > Even Plan 9's model is more like "all I/O is a file" and not "literally everything is a file", since regular process memory is still anonymous and fork()/rfork() are still system calls. I've never seen an OS that puts together the "all memory is a file" of Multics and the "all I/O is a file" of Plan 9. I think the one I'm working on is probably the first. Its public "system call" API (actually a jump table into a static shared library; the real microkernel system calls will be considered a private implementation detail) will just consist of read()/write()/seek()-like calls plus a few support functions to go with them; even things like open() and close() will be RPCs over a permanently-open channel file, and process/thread creation and memory allocation will be done through /proc (there will of course be a library interface over this that implements regular Unix APIs).