From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 22479 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2022 19:55:18 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Jan 2022 19:55:18 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 57FD19CFF7; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:55:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F04659CF7E; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:54:51 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="DKu5Aqej"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 672BE9CF7E; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:54:48 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-f44.google.com (mail-wm1-f44.google.com [209.85.128.44]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEDA09C78F for ; Thu, 13 Jan 2022 05:54:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-f44.google.com with SMTP id o7-20020a05600c510700b00347e10f66d1so1996253wms.0 for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:54:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e9JRf0M72SvW5/Qc5P8XflcaCkkfcvO8ciE4WrGTRS0=; b=DKu5AqejCs94woub9maxXQy4d6JimnfQDkymvGFMT89K/CFfvn/IfwQSCvsznDvJ+i HURBF43XdPhHQIjjp5QqzGAn5OheNDKZ09PG5o+xvJhE+UNix+qj3p/lMc6zJi2M01bB ADmxENpGA0U3o5MOIJmzOL9TqPLe2OvH/+RdPmkRLs7hHwqQF/7ttM9/6eLlauau2BzB SwQgVkbvrxstfq0/wzP9uACoqheJhW3XhmI/LGppOsNhnCfuXTHHQtzbq5uveNftuCQH Xuj3eLUSW+5SUgkpRtKVMyNeG9klXM4Nam+HBpI+zS5BpQV4nPZ09qqyKQRhZZkORsuR t1hg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e9JRf0M72SvW5/Qc5P8XflcaCkkfcvO8ciE4WrGTRS0=; b=uZCPSGxLPoektLIVK2kH9C6oLHrJQSimO2wBiLMQ604ka/Mxw1zdwqxt08Z1/0txhj kR4zG9fRuUt5hoIFGvqcziGjTqBsh5aQ0KE3U5uPzlxlbNQG6C65RW8GXYVuUcorRGo5 C+MAVr6xnqI7wlQlpvcE15zXHovszADrhothlCst6poqq8s+YDoFX+92PPt1HvZkp3Za 3fxry9QoTV9o0dRX2DMArcnny9SAAQfRgO3M64hC1LrShKX9d/JWK/Qb9nW2ophVbaDM HhVHWq+wl8XekX7JpVDWGRLNEsJnRnStqhh2GqADlR+tvVetjD0EMixsfIYe2GPGBNaU YMXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531MR1hrW6NAm/nP8v0THffUFShyV/VGAOtxGRBVvK1ATNsfWqAK 0X8I4HRIU9XQoZ1foL0ja8ZzesVrzgDRLHukkVo9jA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyDoQOTjYJka4zHAcxLV93hMiUyjVXR6/FEBD0r9zrLqt3+ud7pnc+3f1utF7X2du3j7BUbUE4IbB/B08X3Dtw= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c389:: with SMTP id s9mr8196663wmj.187.1642017286267; Wed, 12 Jan 2022 11:54:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <250868b3-9e0c-5ff2-8506-e2da5c73862a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: John Cowan Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2022 14:54:34 -0500 Message-ID: To: Blake McBride Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000103c7405d567f174" Subject: Re: [TUHS] TeX and groff (was: roff(7)) X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000103c7405d567f174 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 9:01 PM Blake McBride wrote: > 2. Drop DVI? Are you kidding me? Although PDF may be popular now, >> > > that may not be the case 20 years from now. A device-independent >> > format is what is needed, and that's what DVI is. TeX is guaranteed >> > to produce the exact same output 100 years from now. >> > Well, provided there are DVI-to-whatever converters then. it's a systems problem. What we really need is gcc support for some processor that is easy to emulate (at least the userland). Historically that was MIPS; now it's probably RISC/V. Or, I suppose, MMIX; there is a very partial Verilog description at that would make it possible to create a hardware integer MMIX CPU using FPGAs. And .PDF isn't? >> > > No. It isn't. It is an Adobe product. > Up to a point, Minister. PDF/A is an ISO standard that tracks PDF 1.4 or PDF 1.7. It is meant for creating archivable PDFs, so it excludes linked fonts (as opposed to embedded ones, which are allowed), JavaScript, audio/video, encryption, external references, etc. For troff purposes, we don't need any of that, so it's just a matter of setting the metadata correctly. ISO standards can be withdrawn, but they remain available; I doubt this one will be, since libraries are depending on it. There are lots of FLOSS toolkits to generate PDFs. --000000000000103c7405d567f174 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jan 11, 2= 022 at 9:01 PM Blake McBride <bla= ke1024@gmail.com> wrote:


=C2=A0> 2.=C2=A0= Drop DVI?=C2=A0 Are you kidding me?=C2=A0 Although PDF may be popular now,=
=C2=A0> that may not be the case 20 years from now.=C2=A0 A device-indep= endent
=C2=A0> format is what is needed, and that's what DVI is.=C2=A0 TeX = is guaranteed
=C2=A0> to produce the exact same output 100 years from now.

Well= , provided there are DVI-to-whatever converters then. it's a systems pr= oblem.=C2=A0 What we really need is gcc support for some processor that is = easy to emulate (at least the userland).=C2=A0 Historically that was MIPS; = now it's probably RISC/V.=C2=A0 Or, I suppose, MMIX; there is a very pa= rtial Verilog description at <https://github.com/tommythorn/fpgammix> that would make it = possible to create a hardware integer MMIX CPU using FPGAs.

And .PDF isn't?

No.=C2=A0 It isn= 9;t.=C2=A0 It is an Adobe product.

<= /div>
Up to a point, Minister.=C2=A0 PDF/A is an I= SO standard that tracks PDF 1.4 or PDF 1.7.=C2=A0 It is meant for creating = archivable PDFs, so it excludes linked fonts (as opposed to embedded ones, = which are allowed), JavaScript, audio/video, encryption, external reference= s, etc.=C2=A0 For troff purposes, we don't need any of that, so it'= s just a matter of setting the metadata correctly.=C2=A0 ISO standards can = be withdrawn, but they remain available; I doubt this one will be, since li= braries are depending on it.=C2=A0 There are lots of FLOSS toolkits to gene= rate PDFs.
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