From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 2658 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2023 04:33:45 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 15 Mar 2023 04:33:45 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE267412C1; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:33:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe35.google.com (mail-vs1-xe35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e35]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D047A412BE for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:33:30 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe35.google.com with SMTP id o2so15921322vss.8 for ; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:33:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; t=1678854809; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+0Y5I6RpvkbBoHZyZN/oPzgi6sQW0wGmMpNEPbvF7gQ=; b=1bGSXtw8y/a8gQzHJZiE5R/Qe3Uk2z0uS6RTTC3NZxju9KsTM47N0pdIYT+S9Usbus qQ3Dfa8SXnZDOIUoNsPhTbv7jujfPQsPYUNQtRoFpeRf3T8Q33flVpPIpxmeKjWH/QDt 92qLmeWOsoF4VJfN97JFctXapOm97xd6p9mYMcSk0VS416JstTwiC/44T0eGSZ/WQiQr n41a+PjZcC7aN6ZAsnijZdpTx+UOXbyTLDUPNX2dFCsEPSfOnrMVelv2BaRftLJhJ9X1 aPgJklC8IJz/w5jJI5h+TT2vyeHrAeEUvcyes4THDPeSAXbxwIx7SQV3I5EB/9jKPsWY isCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678854809; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=+0Y5I6RpvkbBoHZyZN/oPzgi6sQW0wGmMpNEPbvF7gQ=; b=G4iQulLu+HcTfskOOZ7Ca7Ci9e0YBcDVqfCWer9Ib7vx/78uG/OgUoOHfQTBkI4fko IGwf4FP2eXpk2mPoTWPxIKQUQq0G1RXt+B5hSorEqkhj4fLIw0x8k2ALJYEDprCL6sV5 JIcfDx/CQBGVfVib1yR8gyzLQvV25QVUO5D0IXWqnzow/2EYN3qfhEbVyOgMddKIua0N WCO2o22QrSNYuijR1I2Z1A+Wk5KAqvYSY5U4S2knanGwKlG5RrTFgG/O1PjgaMvjwnok +mz6eqiMa8r07pCJ1N7RAG5p3omNv5fjFAd6Bom/nwwWZY1JMo1rD21CCRsLgWw99UPu C03Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKU3bCvj2PSfYEG5FFD4u16NLBWluiCqQK2RLgCSDVmS6SxakWmn XFqtWc6hF+PS/m+RBu+nkHXK5z5hiMQX8UYve9KWCkeftlkkGXih X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set9F0kM40SMPrGEymQmaQw4i2ASFyROVnm+bly6jPUYjK1VQngU0ezqoDqO7vTpy27IzZuUNAUD9qPXs+nvlZ1g= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:15a:b0:425:b211:3671 with SMTP id a26-20020a056102015a00b00425b2113671mr2063572vsr.1.1678854808793; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:33:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230315035930.C68E018C080@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20230315035930.C68E018C080@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: John Cowan Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 00:33:17 -0400 Message-ID: To: Noel Chiappa Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008209d605f6e8d807" Message-ID-Hash: DONRKEN5XYVRJLVYSEN2GFJW5C35F2F6 X-Message-ID-Hash: DONRKEN5XYVRJLVYSEN2GFJW5C35F2F6 X-MailFrom: cowan@ccil.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: COFF X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: [TUHS]: C dialects (was: I can't drive 55: "GOTO considered harmful" 55th anniversary) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000008209d605f6e8d807 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [migrating to coff] On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 11:59=E2=80=AFPM Noel Chiappa wrote: > I do not grant your basic assertion. Hoare had it right: "ALGOL 60 [was] = a > language so far ahead of its time that it was not only an improvement on > its > predecessors but also on nearly all its successors." That would definitel= y > include Algol68, which was a classic committee-designed nightmare. > Common Lisp came long after 1968, was committee-designed, and is by no means a nightmare. It's not a jewel like Scheme is said to be (wrongly IMO), it's a ball of mud, but balls of mud are best for solving muddy problems. --0000000000008209d605f6e8d807 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
[migrating to c= off]

On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 11:59=E2=80=AFPM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:<= br>
=C2=A0
I do not grant your basic assertion. Hoare had it right: "ALGOL 60 [w= as] a
language so far ahead of its time that it was not only an improvement on it= s
predecessors but also on nearly all its successors." That would defini= tely
include Algol68, which was a classic committee-designed nightmare.

Common Lisp came long afte= r 1968, was committee-designed, and is by no means a nightmare.=C2=A0 It= 9;s not a jewel like Scheme is said to be (wrongly IMO), it's a ball of= mud, but balls of mud are best for solving muddy problems.
--0000000000008209d605f6e8d807--