From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 25620 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2021 19:59:41 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 18 Jan 2021 19:59:41 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6DE8A9C6CF; Tue, 19 Jan 2021 05:59:37 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBC04944D4; Tue, 19 Jan 2021 05:58:54 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="gPtL3d6U"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7BD4D944D4; Tue, 19 Jan 2021 05:58:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qt1-f171.google.com (mail-qt1-f171.google.com [209.85.160.171]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DABD93FAE for ; Tue, 19 Jan 2021 05:58:50 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qt1-f171.google.com with SMTP id d15so6700313qtw.12 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 11:58:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OUZeceqAThDRCfcYsb4MYR1obG9KLLk58mtUsLp7iRQ=; b=gPtL3d6UBVqQXZLsjw2QaEJrnSTp+H7JyPauJ8XEGt9lnmR/A5OuQt8/gfG7D149Dc cgyM5YDZD+3VNWsy7v+lDAqUnzbDobfei0/EvzZ22J37XHrIVOn8b1TrXU2lD/zO+qta +EOm9vz3VQ6nto/QaSxkeyspjM9aAXVFNwUQjj5EekJS2Uit0y34sZTo6Ooz5lRXeWOL v/pB2VojIiBFYpgjSTTxGwL+8KzpR7RbRI5tzFqRkDE99Z+0kCfgqz2rq/uvrqBY99Z7 bu906mOtU6GrVNMpZbzzeqB7VCoa3RTvTHd+qS99Airm8PaTomIWROBzPGwKdj07ocOn xX/g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OUZeceqAThDRCfcYsb4MYR1obG9KLLk58mtUsLp7iRQ=; b=iVNVZE79cNE7y8tfdf/aT0AU94MlVt9n28cEvaCmbB+kQO/MGacpK45VQXQdyqspPn 83m61qHX0+k3J/ADHyOmoKSYp3TlZ39Jmutqd+IpzfmOwIQYeoG1tydTu2wPdnFfm/Av WVUmSi/R1emS5EDgDJOT80KEDSjRFYKt3ivVK4pOrM+I3y8BkAL2BKdTX/u5joHcFd3o NpC0PTLbhRTVEFQahLF5wRuNpXbaRgUD6zY/fsz6GK0QyOYxSOwVYebgGUMTyEj1zOiG mWdp3GK+bLxddk3SgyEcIn+9/QoJ4VSCga2AxPunGBmz6KG0M+QY9DKCygtIEkXgMPKj FB3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5328+VeOJpsjxj+EaaQSkIddvqtKByXJrFqN401jdAB8pItk2jGr 2NpZT1X1choFEYSxlSLWYN0gdzGMyVAoNigul9WM0hXvYcwH/gZm X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxhT/BBNOb9UW9ji0I2wEScCPcXnvEyZOU2vboeba5W9oUVc2jIyngxrmjH4AzPVevLDVY1mBFbyD4bSW36M14= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5151:: with SMTP id h17mr1192594qtn.45.1610999929124; Mon, 18 Jan 2021 11:58:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1610922832.12835.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> In-Reply-To: <1610922832.12835.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> From: John Cowan Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 14:58:36 -0500 Message-ID: To: Norman Wilson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000824b0405b9322663" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Bearded Fellow, Ken Thompson X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000824b0405b9322663 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 5:35 PM Norman Wilson wrote: > Not really. I've seen bare faces and beards and operating systems > over the decades that would scare the bugs out of any of the above > beards and operating systems. There really isn't a lot of consistency. > I've known plenty of bare-faced UNIX hacks, and plenty of RSX and > VMS and Windows and IBM programmers who hide their embarrassment > behind beards. > I don't think it's so much a matter of wearing a beard, but being allowed to wear one. For seven grim decades no American man could get away with a beard, after the end of the post-Civil War era, in which a beard was the sign of a veteran (try shaving in the field!) Mustaches (often handlebars or toothbrushes until WWII) were the limit of tolerable facial hair among respectable company employees. That began to change in the 1960s, when many things did. Still, hippies and musicians and poets wore beards but few others did; facial hair didn't really take off among the gen. pop. until the 70s. But somehow, programmer beards were tolerated, first at universities, then at research labs, and then throughout the industry, then throughout every industry, though I myself was one of only two beards at the Wall Street brokerage I worked for in the early 80s, the other being my boss. Even today, $EMPLOYER, which is an ex-startup, has a mixture of beards and no-beards among the male engineers, but all the sales and marketing males are clean-shaven. (When I met my future wife I was 21, and she wanted me to grow a beard, so I did. Since then I have occasionally asked cow orkers who have complained about shaving why *they* don't grow beards: the most common answer is "My wife doesn't want me to." *My* wife doesn't believe this story.) John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org And through this revolting graveyard of the universe the muffled, maddening beating of drums, and thin, monotonous whine of blasphemous flutes from inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond Time; the detestable pounding and piping whereunto dance slowly, awkwardly, and absurdly the gigantic tenebrous ultimate gods --the blind, voiceless, mindless gargoyles whose soul is Nyarlathotep. (Lovecraft) --000000000000824b0405b9322663 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sun, Jan 17, 2= 021 at 5:35 PM Norman Wilson <norman= @oclsc.org> wrote:
=C2=A0
Not really.=C2=A0 I've seen bare faces and b= eards and operating systems
over the decades that would scare the bugs out of any of the above
beards and operating systems.=C2=A0 There really isn't a lot of consist= ency.
I've known plenty of bare-faced UNIX hacks, and plenty of RSX and
VMS and Windows and IBM programmers who hide their embarrassment
behind beards.

I d= on't think it's so much a matter of wearing a beard, but being allo= wed to wear one.=C2=A0 For seven grim decades no American man could get awa= y with a beard, after the end of the post-Civil War era, in which a beard w= as the sign of a veteran (try shaving in the field!)=C2=A0 Mustaches (often= handlebars or toothbrushes until WWII) were the limit of tolerable facial = hair among respectable company employees.
That began to change in the 1960s, when m= any things did.=C2=A0 Still, hippies and musicians and poets wore beards bu= t few others did; facial=C2=A0hair didn't really take off among the gen= . pop. until the 70s.=C2=A0=C2=A0

But somehow, programmer beards were tolerated, = first at universities, then at research labs, and then throughout the indus= try, then throughout every industry, though I myself was one of only two be= ards at the Wall Street brokerage I worked for in the early 80s, the other = being my boss.=C2=A0 Even today, $EMPLOYER, which is an ex-startup, has a m= ixture of beards and no-beards among the male engineers, but all the sales = and marketing males are clean-shaven.

(When I met my future wife I was 21, and she = wanted me to grow a beard, so I did.=C2=A0 Since then I have occasionally a= sked cow orkers=C2=A0who have complained about shaving why *they* don't= grow beards: the most common answer is "My wife doesn't want me t= o."=C2=A0 *My* wife doesn't believe this story.)




John Cowan =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0cowan@ccil.org
And throu= gh this revolting graveyard of the universe the muffled,
maddening beati= ng of drums, and thin, monotonous whine of blasphemous
flutes from incon= ceivable, unlighted chambers beyond Time; the
detestable pounding and pi= ping whereunto dance slowly, awkwardly, and
absurdly the gigantic tenebr= ous ultimate gods --the blind, voiceless,
mindless gargoyles whose soul = is Nyarlathotep. (Lovecraft)

<= /div>
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