From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23099 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2023 16:40:51 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Oct 2023 16:40:51 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D802B42462; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 02:40:47 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x935.google.com (mail-ua1-x935.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::935]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37AAB42461 for ; Sun, 22 Oct 2023 02:40:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x935.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-7b6e3dc54e0so1208053241.1 for ; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:40:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1697906439; x=1698511239; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=5qDm+ynBdi99s6rR1tC3+SDdZpbGw5g2b9Iz9KunM7Y=; b=zScd8LDJ+cLdDhIPGO3/6QOSA6EOITNYpdffYhdg2jUxrB7xpTtsSJxLSv55KgCYNy 4hwnZzPVMhQ88KrXVMkI2gm1RL98fcuukxgD+EQTIpK2gvEq0i+wyzDfAT54dORC902R Oy0wQb1C9zu0pKEfNc1GXemQB7Gifn1CFW0D1zGLCxsyzjp9Zqsl7YU/PyPfYnp3lACY 8EIx20YrosQr9gDer1SCkYImXeHjUhpRl9Q+dXNoQ7cYJLt2cAdHb6+nynefnhyX7G51 z16AoFcN29Z4Peh02CVMgKeyQHJyAVrxsRHl30vb4rIcrgnrQ8fyBSipFc1j99Xdbgyl /HAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697906439; x=1698511239; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=5qDm+ynBdi99s6rR1tC3+SDdZpbGw5g2b9Iz9KunM7Y=; b=k858xZfhhjHVfUVR5Pe8hD4aV5lKWlmzr38gPECWUhutz0xbPfCG8Ldsur1UhJeQxI v0TDomHvN5kYBdyw1oWVT0FUszdCig5ap42NLUg/I46ObTzJDl6OXd51qd08payZss3D K9OsIq1qVsLhx1vKRjs6NFam8IJ6lNAgxWcK2Yswtl6r8QGmKln1eHdCI9HSc2gjs3jK OmBpby06Ip/pBkjrGbj1EwIFRFJw/Lx5yYDqTwqAcOZEq8F7GWkjmORWevZQfw3Neelx F+JMncusV1AMiRKFHwo4bRApDtXPlY5P6vCLkHY7S0Vl2qa4izBkVq9Nwqp4qB633wC6 y9lw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxEZAEepLG6SYkUR6oX4RRVv0VnJuR52DM7ABLYtWOovi9TibmS /8m4YfVvoEQF+eOgZKA/HCXSLOgumdp7U+mtSKh/ng== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH6B/np6in6mJAkYy2x2qREacz4TXoi740kaQ5NXVRDhKsIB6PN3MZLKHaUaiWlCl0E/2fzdroERnbcgp9DiP4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:3da4:b0:455:f04d:7b64 with SMTP id h36-20020a0561023da400b00455f04d7b64mr5565561vsv.8.1697906438964; Sat, 21 Oct 2023 09:40:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <25140E5E-38B5-4CB9-B0D5-8C395206E49D@planet.nl> In-Reply-To: <25140E5E-38B5-4CB9-B0D5-8C395206E49D@planet.nl> From: John Cowan Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2023 12:40:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: Paul Ruizendaal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002828aa06083ca6b8" Message-ID-Hash: BOHN6GAPDS32OTMSVO2IWXXDG5ZJT2Q7 X-Message-ID-Hash: BOHN6GAPDS32OTMSVO2IWXXDG5ZJT2Q7 X-MailFrom: cowan@ccil.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "tuhs@tuhs.org" X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: Dave Cutler recollection about Xenix List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000002828aa06083ca6b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM Paul Ruizendaal wr= ote: > > An interesting set of videos indeed, although I wish they were not all > chopped up in 5 minute segments. > The alternative nowadays is for YouTube to chop videos up themselves with commercials. The below site has a very nice summary of Xenix at Microsoft (I=E2=80=99ve = linked > it a couple of times before): > http://seefigure1.com/2014/04/15/xenixtime.html By this time, there was growing retail demand for Xenix on IBM-compatible > personal computer hardware, but Microsoft made the strategic decision not > to sell Xenix in the consumer market; instead, they entered into an > agreement with a company called the Santa Cruz Operation to package, sell > and support Xenix for those customers. That's not entirely true. The first personal computer I used was an IBM PC/AT, and I bought MS-branded Xenix (System III) for it. It was a box full of floppies, and it came with the MS C compiler (CL.EXE etc.) which could compile for Xenix or cross-compile for MS-DOS. That way I could write command-line programs on Xenix and deliver them for DOS. In a way it is the same dynamic that kept C89 and Bash in place for so > long: people know it, it is good enough and it works everywhere. > C89 has plenty of obvious successors; bash does not. Seeing the Cutler interviews reminded me of the old joke that there are > only two operating systems left: Unix and VMS (Linux being Unix-family an= d > Windows being VMS-family). > OS/360 (now in the form of z/OS) is still very much with us. z/OS is Posix-certified, but it is fairly distant from Linux, *BSD, or Solaris. (It is not to be confused with Linux running on System Z virtualized.) --0000000000002828aa06083ca6b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sa= t, Oct 21, 2023 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM Paul Ruizendaal <pnr@planet.nl> wrote:

An interesting set of videos indeed, although I wish they were not all chop= ped up in 5 minute segments.

The alternative nowadays is for YouTube to chop videos up themse= lves with commercials.

The below site has a very nice summa= ry of Xenix at Microsoft (I=E2=80=99ve linked it a couple of times before):=
http://seefigure1.com/2014/04/15/xenixtime.html

By this time, ther= e was growing retail demand for Xenix on IBM-compatible personal computer h= ardware, but Microsoft made the strategic decision not to sell Xenix in the= consumer market; instead, they entered into an agreement with a company ca= lled the Santa Cruz Operation to package, sell and support Xenix for those = customers.

That's = not entirely true.=C2=A0 The first personal computer I used was an IBM PC/A= T, and I bought MS-branded Xenix (System III) for it.=C2=A0 It was a box fu= ll of floppies, and it came with the MS C compiler (CL.EXE etc.) which coul= d compile for Xenix or cross-compile for MS-DOS.=C2=A0 That way I could wri= te command-line programs on Xenix and deliver them for DOS.

=C2=A0In a way it is the same dynamic that kept C89 and Bash in place for = so long: people know it, it is good enough and it works everywhere.

C89 has plenty of obvious= successors; bash does not.

Seeing the Cutler interviews re= minded me of the old joke that there are only two operating systems left: U= nix and VMS (Linux being Unix-family and Windows being VMS-family).=C2=A0

OS/360 (now in the = form of z/OS) is still very much with us.=C2=A0 z/OS is Posix-certified, bu= t it is fairly distant from Linux, *BSD, or Solaris.=C2=A0 (It is not to be= confused with Linux running on System Z virtualized.)
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