From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 28760 invoked from network); 16 Jun 2023 17:46:46 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 16 Jun 2023 17:46:46 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC15425AE; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 03:46:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe36.google.com (mail-vs1-xe36.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e36]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83BF8414B9 for ; Sat, 17 Jun 2023 03:46:28 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe36.google.com with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-43b4b5378ecso407673137.1 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2023 10:46:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1686937587; x=1689529587; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=W162TOZRF6LZRV7PonIgjnuEjhQeejpaHCzmKHFPmT0=; b=LgnPl9Z4KrbPbuKivnx5P+tslUvh3+jTKn92/ZFBILxZ56Zqx5Z9OdYkso7jSNKv8R cBqN+2Djrpi/GriXZj7Nr97nbDlsu9B6o4Mi5u8gp8oI4JTRAGc90vjNspFOTYDcDsMT UDSMYeCUP8FcigQqdxT9OARmeRU34yTitpRXMakYtM3hIGugt2RAnXkwNZMOeilzzRIy qfTwd5Xt77SET3D3Ji3KnFJsJkcTBFqSL2oFfIJ5sZ/rqoglCbx2uvQPrgsHOJMMomjv Qx1rOZt/uBcaURLLPPr/J32FMfu6Mr2hOUOhxZWgKucdFUJxTa0hLMEM30uZqtgc0v6S YxZQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1686937587; x=1689529587; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=W162TOZRF6LZRV7PonIgjnuEjhQeejpaHCzmKHFPmT0=; b=UMgCYLgeL8Sju1apbHMoZyqwVDik78cCuTVpbDx1KYtTsIHxAYksoGSwTo5Zcb5dWv 6fAFh4c+pagOzXnK6oUi6JbaLlmEKjkJfQs3T9hNWB+iiJtuzfQTaz9D9VX7kHKpEADe 9Q/iOG0cgy+pLqq/cui4JVXSkjkThlyVnGIosM4qdVHd+SOOSyzf+SWxLuebVCn9bLaX fTH/5fNAyV3UavljUKe+dygYlt9rEPvianqPSlC9+ejox2v2otKkutgIjfula8ik822M t+gmGnv8ecKJ+D9OyQyIBC1zJJMztiwiE6ihRVSyw0Zx/Y/5ChYRKWBWXyyDvetRW6TT oKJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDy9wZhwp1Rlbwpf2Y5HZGZ8pVVr/rwOkwmHFSuPsuhZK9n5DWC0 oSxfcQn5yHLqzChhCzT+Qyqo9dVoK6BURY9xCCc0Gg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ6JSjCyekuzbeRVD6+VtACIlHPXmIoammHOMFg2PaAXZr0G5j01emf1CUi+z4iNCqL3i+dllaoc/inE8mc2aB0= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ce93:0:b0:43f:6228:44a4 with SMTP id c19-20020a67ce93000000b0043f622844a4mr2549777vse.18.1686937587448; Fri, 16 Jun 2023 10:46:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230616032055.ixdg6ubvfxgjhsmb@illithid> <37ea7f2b-e8f7-3cfe-a27d-ece47c5dc0f7@esi.com.au> <20230616050705.3ualzkwc44a7sm4u@illithid> <1qA46y-3OI-00@marmaro.de> In-Reply-To: From: John Cowan Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2023 13:46:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: Paul Winalski Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a8910805fe42c37a" Message-ID-Hash: A7SXO44HKVDPSNJVW6BYVQCEVU7MGS3U X-Message-ID-Hash: A7SXO44HKVDPSNJVW6BYVQCEVU7MGS3U X-MailFrom: cowan@ccil.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: groff@gnu.org, TUHS main list X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: end-S/long-S (was: Re: GNU eqn clarifications and reforms) List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --000000000000a8910805fe42c37a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 16, 2023 at 12:18=E2=80=AFPM Paul Winalski wrote: > German also has a ligature letter called eszet that is a fusion of a > long s (the one that resembles the English letter f) and a short s. > Not a short s, but a z, as the name indicates: es-zett, S-Z. This reflects the use of z in Old and Middle High German to represent a sibilant sound distinct from s, derived from /t/ by the High German sound shift but distinct from original /s/. When the distinction was lost in the 13C, z came to be used for its modern sound /ts/, but the ligature came to represent the merged /s/. --000000000000a8910805fe42c37a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fr= i, Jun 16, 2023 at 12:18=E2=80=AFPM Paul Winalski <paul.winalski@gmail.com> wrote:
= =C2=A0
German also h= as a ligature letter called eszet that is a fusion of a
long s (the one that resembles the English letter f) and a short s.

Not a short s, but a z, a= s the name indicates:=C2=A0 es-zett, S-Z.=C2=A0 This reflects the use of z = in Old and Middle High German to represent a sibilant sound distinct from s= , derived from /t/ by the High German sound shift but distinct from origina= l /s/.=C2=A0 When the distinction was lost in the 13C, z came to be used fo= r its modern sound /ts/, but the ligature came to represent the merged /s/.=
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