From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 20118 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2022 01:49:20 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 9 Apr 2022 01:49:20 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 70DE49D6F2; Sat, 9 Apr 2022 11:49:13 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F6B39D680; Sat, 9 Apr 2022 11:48:12 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="1JhbF1UD"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 22C819D680; Sat, 9 Apr 2022 11:46:24 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pf1-f178.google.com (mail-pf1-f178.google.com [209.85.210.178]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3789D9D665 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2022 11:46:23 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-f178.google.com with SMTP id j17so8443510pfi.9 for ; Fri, 08 Apr 2022 18:46:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WE/mx7N67tRdH82Rx+Cc7L+y6OwL1YJ5Eku/ucC3zwM=; b=1JhbF1UDYjltCqXoxJ1bE9rhv8EF+aDPBshYB1onFM60eKhdfiNO4NPY4JUy24Kp3O sTU2hOg+zAMGnPo+28HkbbCj6+e16dIoWuOCMUFFQXXxdrogrnu3Cttl660920aGfuf6 T1vBdtzQJtX+9Sxty3JrB3iH64GEtZqkahmK/BGqJAyYQCta2A+NXcBC65dwQhJiW5JZ 8jolXwK7CfaYRXm2rW/gPVPfHu/qXuwP7fNFiFRmVTmZt/upHNK3lJSYfW0ebwZ4l0ci EFf0ttrQXw+Ehgs4UiFNKT8hbhn7CVvMtL9naS9O7F6uKGLDrGq8fANWBOApX3QYQkX6 KwQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WE/mx7N67tRdH82Rx+Cc7L+y6OwL1YJ5Eku/ucC3zwM=; b=eyvqrkX1ygm/KGgu4RuO6gRBtYWiI9Rwem6nAAu7e9s3tM1OWnb2JaLUOQGnEf/j43 084PO2tW7xDv5AU/2QRYLB1kMEepaIhXJEOxLtoTftxSRSMV0p9D9PT5aFmWNAnfUsk8 GFLqEZ3eEClYJ5NyKYyj6BvO5IA19547HIYUn+nGEGXF6TKuMELeJjBK7VB/l25HUGV+ IRjpw8jJofGPHX/gdEndcDy4myuQGxnoTsrl9DEBr6tlj4gJCaJlUMVxvCxMK471pX/w Bj9e/yRL9y5JSgbulMQLDB6Xcfzv+cO96L+XEB5lnOqm5LFLMwBkBAZTNj29B/5NgAcq eRCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533R3I5EM3rdEqwjH3WMeYSJAIw6A5qYRfLEq+WezYVIwG2axCDE lFRibH+29/hP2zreql7/1XKOKFhyFxGtaQ5YuOHptUowcto= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy03mTLMxDPA77JHAnrACpvA5GgtEGbSo1AfKzsQjE8BcaDAFxNGeNgsmpLh9zVlB5+99kKLKfpI6DmvJuuffs= X-Received: by 2002:a63:86c1:0:b0:397:ffaa:1eaa with SMTP id x184-20020a6386c1000000b00397ffaa1eaamr17269021pgd.382.1649468782442; Fri, 08 Apr 2022 18:46:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: John Cowan Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 21:46:10 -0400 Message-ID: To: Rob Pike Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d88efc05dc2ee095" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Why does shell write to stderr? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000d88efc05dc2ee095 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 7:53 PM Rob Pike wrote: If you never ring the bell in the editor, the issue never comes up, the > code is simpler, and there's less to understand. > Well, yes. And by the same token, you can eliminate the complexities of i18n by having only one diagnostic, namely "?" (or by pretending all the world is anglophone). But setting aside for the moment this style of argumentation, let's consider directory colorization. I have no dog in this fight, as I set all my terminals to black-on-white as God and Gutenberg intended, and set TERM to vt100 so the colors can't be changed. However, the feature seems to be extremely popular, and can't be readily done outboard in a pipeline], unlike most of the infamous options of cat(1). As things stand, the X3.64 control sequences output by colorization are *not* suppressed when the output of ls isn't a terminal, which means I have had to write a stripper for them. Another example is cal(1), which tries to output the current day in reverse video, which is equally annoying but fortunately can be suppressed more easily by piping it through more(1). --000000000000d88efc05dc2ee095 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Apr 7, 20= 22 at 7:53 PM Rob Pike <robpike@gma= il.com> wrote:

If y= ou never ring the bell in the editor, the issue never comes up, the code is= simpler, and there's less to understand.

Well, yes.=C2=A0 And by the same token, you c= an eliminate the complexities of i18n by having only one diagnostic, namely= "?" (or by pretending all the world is anglophone).

But setting aside fo= r the moment this style of argumentation, let's consider directory colo= rization.=C2=A0 I have no dog in this fight, as I set all my terminals to b= lack-on-white as God and Gutenberg intended, and set TERM to vt100 so the c= olors can't be changed.=C2=A0 However, the feature seems to be extremel= y popular, and can't be readily done outboard in a pipeline], unlike mo= st of the infamous options of cat(1).=C2=A0 As things stand, the X3.64 cont= rol sequences output by colorization are *not* suppressed when the output o= f ls isn't a terminal, which means I have had to write a stripper for t= hem.=C2=A0 Another example is cal(1), which tries to output the current day= in reverse video, which is equally annoying but fortunately can be suppres= sed more easily by piping it through more(1).