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From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
To: Marshall Conover <marzhall.o@gmail.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware (Timothy Roscoe)
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 23:54:01 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAD2gp_S0orhJ0Y4da3RK7SK44Q=3fZ5Yv2eJ7SQcJGzPvptksQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAK0pxsG+Qv4bR2jEHhXH0N87oZO0ZmW4rhjrCdWyEuDGESj3CA@mail.gmail.com>

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On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 7:15 PM Marshall Conover <marzhall.o@gmail.com>
wrote:


> I know a container I deploy will have
> everything it needs wherever it goes, and will be exactly the thing I
> built and tested.


Up to a point, Minister.  You can mount a scratch monkey, but you can't
mount a scratch Internet or a scratch AWS or a scratch Google.

> At one point the VM on
> which we were running those agents went down, and our stop-gap fix was
> to download and run a few copies of that container locally.
>

That's true if the container isn't too vulgar big.  I can run $EMPLOYER's
whole application on my laptop in the root environment, but running it in
Docker is too costly even though that's how it's deployed on AWS.


> from the adage "necessity is the mother of invention." People writing
> business logic today are targeting an OS-independent platform: the
> browser.


Most actual business logic is still in the back end, at least at my part of
the coal face.  The browser is more of a programmable platform as time goes
by, but it's still a Blit even if no longer just a 3270.


> Management -
> which in this case, means the world at large - demands new features,
> not unspecified heisen-benefits from redoing things that already work.
>

There is a pressure toward that.  But when $CLIENTS (who are a lot bigger
than $EMPLOYER) start to complain about how often the application they are
paying $$$$$$$ for falls over due to lack of robustness, things change.
Not everything can be startup-grade.

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  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-09-17  3:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 52+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-09-01 21:58 Dan Cross
2021-09-02  8:42 ` Tony Finch
2021-09-03  0:19   ` John Cowan
2021-09-03  3:24     ` Douglas McIlroy
2021-09-03 13:21       ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-08 11:14         ` Tony Finch
2021-09-16 19:27         ` Dan Cross
2021-09-17  0:34           ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17  0:44             ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 17:07               ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17  1:33             ` Dan Cross
2021-09-02 15:41 ` Kevin Bowling
2021-09-02 20:12   ` Marshall Conover
2021-09-03 15:56 ` Warner Losh
2021-09-03 17:10   ` Adam Thornton
2021-09-03 17:28     ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-03 17:42       ` John Floren
2021-09-03 19:02       ` Lawrence Stewart
2021-09-03 19:11       ` Clem Cole
2021-09-03 17:46     ` [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware [ really a comment on SoCs ] Jon Steinhart
2021-09-16 18:38 ` [TUHS] ATC/OSDI'21 joint keynote: It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware (Timothy Roscoe) Dan Cross
2021-09-16 19:34   ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-16 19:41     ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-16 23:14       ` Marshall Conover
2021-09-16 23:44         ` Rob Pike
2021-09-17  0:37           ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17  1:38         ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17  3:54         ` John Cowan [this message]
2021-09-16 23:45       ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17  0:06         ` Al Kossow
2021-09-17  4:06           ` John Cowan
2021-09-17  4:18             ` Al Kossow
2021-09-17  0:32         ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-16 23:54       ` David Arnold
2021-09-17  1:10         ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17  1:28           ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17  1:40             ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17  2:04               ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17  2:21                 ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17  2:48           ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 17:39         ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 17:51           ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 18:07             ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-17 21:03               ` Derek Fawcus
2021-09-17 22:11                 ` Larry McVoy
2021-09-19  4:05                   ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-09-17 18:34             ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 18:56               ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 19:16                 ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 19:35                   ` Jon Steinhart
2021-09-17 15:56     ` Bakul Shah
2021-09-17 18:24       ` ron minnich

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