From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 6530 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2021 23:10:14 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Jan 2021 23:10:14 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E4EBE9C7FD; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:10:11 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B8E39C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:09:44 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.i=@ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.b="K8AYvvjR"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C2ED89C653; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:09:41 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f42.google.com (mail-qv1-f42.google.com [209.85.219.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C91B9C63D for ; Sun, 31 Jan 2021 09:09:40 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f42.google.com with SMTP id h21so6389761qvb.8 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:09:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7kIEBZdqU6P74VRSsxl1q5eDsZj/OYYZueN8cWmsK7I=; b=K8AYvvjRzvSZn5pbC58d/4NIoqlNMzqq8WiMqOvGQeecRS2dczVxApKAqylTpgnMse YZiMonbP+T8Xmo1jCnZFG4wwJPWR0fDrMjTnqMGEgbNXTbnw+x6U6dEg6kd99w67yO0j dmJ4bqZN/gC1fi9se4detMNxuxWqiWeYks1dnM7G1pD+kJubLF4eKc/Eh804CWgh5fv7 SiIxRCwOFxlb0ACVUV4Hw1OWsmNOYoxLWC/v0ze8eEjm5Q/9yq2VvGQN/Jg3CYLVR5g8 Z06HaPwfqrTan0NfuPWMcdddpys3Mn92KB89PVkT/iszlRXdEgEs0MMIqRZc3QV9BFMf nd2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7kIEBZdqU6P74VRSsxl1q5eDsZj/OYYZueN8cWmsK7I=; b=qunEy1nlExvI7usbTPzzyBzz+BUErtVa1wh3aL08ubZMXy4KjwuInriyIpKbh6dghc QxCPOLVrBMUToDN8O5zQiCDpIAysJtlWdAwpaUuX3ULgteLRjCdp+FS204MpF78GSFPm DGdxP9/ypHLxP2zRdQ+M62kJWKrqFLomRNgqnGXsKB1JieAdM92BfpUShOlvHiKOhX22 EF7BwqXjILdnsJhJq99M9NZpSDFq3zsOS9BOhpYa6UTXPIPoi08eSC5WdH76sA0GjQvM 7m7+e8AWIwAPjrXZ8yVPLdGXAxTL6iCUkrcDPAK2pT1WCQUZirCz0IqroO46JnTm12/q CvXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532BfJrDaT1mOImSwvK+FEgQdu2T//wzwbPV1SykxO2ruw1+k9ec J6H/G1rxZaYkXOXHV38C+i+vKZUpZM7RE3IbNW4SFA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxAItPxD84y2ofCAi2v1VlpjJeQpB2rAJrqJFFCqjvNyfrnYPzjPdkYWAgM609DtwOXBoIYCHZ5DgEXv0I5/kE= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:44a9:: with SMTP id n9mr9967258qvt.10.1612048179484; Sat, 30 Jan 2021 15:09:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202101301950.10UJoWeA456408@darkstar.fourwinds.com> In-Reply-To: From: John Cowan Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2021 18:09:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000196cac05ba2637e0" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Favorite unix design principles? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --000000000000196cac05ba2637e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:29 PM Clem Cole wrote: > These days, Apple no longer cares about Mac OS because iOS is where they > now put their effort, although I'm not super impressed there either, but I > also don't push it like I do Mac OS. Sad really. If I could get the > day-2-day applications that I need to work on FreeBSD, I suspect I would be > there in a heartbeat. > Decades ago I worked out the lifecycle of tech companies: 1) Engineering-driven: the goal is to make and sell high-quality products. DEC and HP were like this for a long time. 2) Sales-driven: the goal is to sell products, high-quality or not. Too many examples to specify. 3) Finance-driven: the goal is to make money, whether you sell products or not. The classic case here is Carnegie Steel. When Carnegie told his direct reports they were going into the railroad business and they protested that the company knew nothing about it, he said "Carnegie Steel isn't about making steel, it's about making money, and anyone who forgets that is fired." 4) Survival-driven: the goal is to keep the company going whether you make money or not. Auto companies just after bailouts are in this step. In particular, Chrysler was bailed out in 1979 and again in 2009: see Tom Paxton's song "I'm Changing My Name To Chrysler" (covered by Arlo and Pete on _Precious Friends_). On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:43 PM Dave Horsfall wrote: You had *three* RK05s, an RK07, *and* a DH11? We had just two, and a > crappy DJ-11 on our /40s. Pretty much stable; any bugs were fixed on the > spot because we had the source code after all. > I cut my teeth on a PDP-8 with a single TU58 DECtape and a TD8/E controller (no interrupts, no data break cycles; I/O was more or less analogous to terminal I/O). Uphill both ways in the snow. John Cowan http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org So they play that [tune] on their fascist banjos, eh? --Great-Souled Sam --000000000000196cac05ba2637e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Jan 30, 2= 021 at 4:29 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com= > wrote:
=C2=A0
These days, Apple no longer cares about Mac OS because iOS is = where they now put their effort,=C2=A0although I'm not super impressed = there=C2=A0either, but I also don't push it like I do Mac OS.=C2=A0 Sad= really.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If I could get the day-2-day applications that I need = to work on FreeBSD, I suspect I would be there in a heartbeat.
<= /blockquote>

Decades ago I worked o= ut the lifecycle of tech companies:

1) Engineering-driven: the goal is to make and = sell high-quality products.=C2=A0 DEC and HP were like this for a long time= .

2) Sal= es-driven: the goal is to sell products, high-quality or not.=C2=A0 Too man= y examples to specify.

3) Finance-driven: the goal is to make money, whether you s= ell products or not.=C2=A0 The classic case here is Carnegie Steel.=C2=A0 W= hen Carnegie told his direct reports they were going into the railroad busi= ness and they protested that the company knew nothing about it, he said &qu= ot;Carnegie Steel isn't about making steel, it's about making money= , and anyone who forgets that is fired."
4) Survival-driven: the goal is to ke= ep the company going whether you make money or not.=C2=A0 Auto companies ju= st after bailouts are in this step.=C2=A0 In particular, Chrysler was baile= d out in 1979 and again in 2009: see Tom Paxton's song "I'm Ch= anging My Name To Chrysler" (covered by Arlo and Pete on _Precious Fri= ends_).

=
On Sat, Ja= n 30, 2021 at 4:43 PM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:

You had *three* RK05s, an RK07, *and* a DH11?=C2=A0 We had just two, and a =
crappy DJ-11 on our /40s.=C2=A0 Pretty much stable; any bugs were fixed on = the
spot because we had the source code after all.

I cut my teeth on a PDP-8 with a single TU5= 8 DECtape and a TD8/E controller (no interrupts, no data break cycles; I/O = was more or less analogous to terminal I/O).=C2=A0 Uphill both ways in the = snow.



John Cowan =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cowan@ccil.org
So= they play that [tune] on their fascist banjos, eh?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 --Great-Souled Sam
--000000000000196cac05ba2637e0--