From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 8579 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2023 03:22:24 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 4 Jan 2023 03:22:24 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6DA64253E; Wed, 4 Jan 2023 13:22:02 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-vs1-f53.google.com (mail-vs1-f53.google.com [209.85.217.53]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FE2442538 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2023 13:21:58 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-vs1-f53.google.com with SMTP id 3so33690480vsq.7 for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 19:21:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ibQIdfx+RqdO+DWXX845I6jbzdNsRCq81dPJQC8GBjY=; b=JmxSJqHxn3/gH0ulzyQZglkNc/GeRng5yJw0FkT4n/k5p3P4JuQAfoc67LTlO5tewg OxXN6z3ghoX7JgQ7AqkdfmHfI9VS5L7QT2IpgzpJLIBumaIpcLtycgsYLuI7YE83Hh2m tI9IqKwSo8T0p/JebRIYen0gJplwqKYKG2mXHWAQZBF2Tj+S+jmWosKQVz9SDwrczhTu cEE+JrCUHJdcRww5zCTQBHMJYmAxPcX1xfHF+bBN2M4tXNMxgZaT0bCG/FN0Oo6UvBAw FAr6UufTp76ek2EOjBEVf/11HBxjPR1pCwTKcVQ84nIvjjJ6m6itmvrE9kpY7T5Cj+me dM1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ibQIdfx+RqdO+DWXX845I6jbzdNsRCq81dPJQC8GBjY=; b=1gCc/umKY1W35kR49R/Jo+5EO+ZwjC8P2nxWs2F4kAm662YqhvUsnpANKkibhSsIPu giFKCaGKx8yTYsv9nN2B5RT8KltxM48ya4Eml/0NYJG1fKOm1GjzwfH0Np6tyrRcMNkH p8ybwx76y2GBCXnWGUNQOAAgpFc5mzKXMxlYSg8lAx7I5HuUPXz0W9e0o5ZR+FnHCPwf aovzswLcRcyuOzw6inLbCRBJ+3mRWEN2Dk/H0ynIck8e1KOqWoki9+TTZjId/fXad6Xn eVU3T/TdAhyB0IVJuVMZnzuiYe/ChCK89ZjZbnPTuA8Y1+Z/JB+dzfIt8PoGvyMqKRLv m2yA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krvw3A0GHARXUG5rVJqQAlrgXtF+Seq1UDDXFLpi47DzVD+6auL qRYJLY5h/+7nq342jyC5cC1HNhLyzjeDGSbyxTMyLxB2mYQLHA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXv9I3M3AcmyzSbZcZmN6+yjDIEmGowKcuKy+hViGQTlfg3ov5NdDXx6ZkNCvLDG8inKsXahKKm24ilcli6DFs0= X-Received: by 2002:a67:ebcb:0:b0:3cb:7fd:cf05 with SMTP id y11-20020a67ebcb000000b003cb07fdcf05mr2995592vso.24.1672802457514; Tue, 03 Jan 2023 19:20:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <52FB6638-AEFF-4A4F-8C2E-32089D577BA0@planet.nl> <464819f0-d2f6-2a60-6481-a194f4428b4d@case.edu> <20221230200246.GW5825@mcvoy.com> <88f83b4c-b3f9-ed87-b2fa-560fb369742a@makerlisp.com> <20221231035931.GG5825@mcvoy.com> <528f0c53-ccc2-88a1-5a7b-120362c648dd@mhorton.net> <20230102165120.GK25547@mcvoy.com> <20230102174304.GM25547@mcvoy.com> In-Reply-To: <20230102174304.GM25547@mcvoy.com> From: John Cowan Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2023 22:20:46 -0500 Message-ID: To: Larry McVoy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000042931605f167ac27" Message-ID-Hash: 7QW4BMMICXFNCJFIWSDHMRQADUCDIL27 X-Message-ID-Hash: 7QW4BMMICXFNCJFIWSDHMRQADUCDIL27 X-MailFrom: cowan@ccil.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-tuhs.tuhs.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: A few comments on porting the Bourne shell List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000042931605f167ac27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Jan 2, 2023 at 12:43 PM Larry McVoy wrote: > I was supporting a commercial product in the early 2000's and there > were all sorts of systems then that had old shells. Yes, you could make > everything a 2 level thing where the first level finds the correct shell, > but that's just fuss. Just make things portable, it's not that hard > and it works everywhere. > Making shell scripts portable means not using pipelines, because given "foo | bar", kshNN and zsh execute foo in a subshell and bar in the top-level shell, whereas in other shells, both foo and bar execute in subshells. (For this reason, Posix allows either behavior.) Not having pipelines is a pretty drastic limitation. --00000000000042931605f167ac27 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mo= n, Jan 2, 2023 at 12:43 PM Larry McVoy <= lm@mcvoy.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
I was supporting a commercial product in the e= arly 2000's and there
were all sorts of systems then that had old shells.=C2=A0 Yes, you could ma= ke
everything a 2 level thing where the first level finds the correct shell, but that's just fuss.=C2=A0 Just make things portable, it's not tha= t hard
and it works everywhere.

Making shell scripts portable means not using pipelines, because giv= en "foo | bar", kshNN=C2=A0and zsh execute foo in a subshell and = bar in the top-level shell, whereas in other shells, both foo and bar execu= te in subshells.=C2=A0 (For this reason, Posix allows either behavior.)=C2= =A0 Not having pipelines is a pretty drastic limitation.
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