From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 5267 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2022 19:05:57 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 29 Jan 2022 19:05:57 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7C10D9B8E4; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 05:05:54 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0AF59510A; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 05:05:25 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="FQG59mtc"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id CF6D19510A; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 05:05:22 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-f51.google.com (mail-wm1-f51.google.com [209.85.128.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DA6295109 for ; Sun, 30 Jan 2022 05:05:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-f51.google.com with SMTP id f202-20020a1c1fd3000000b0034dd403f4fbso6472672wmf.1 for ; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:05:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6LK2SpUDVisf3ZuRMYSasQVx4GKk3S/PNe68iswpF7A=; b=FQG59mtccPCEkCVGFz3pbQzUoU9z/xEZt/CQAjJt+lz+2KxsiTFNwiv0spDuvvdWUq Z4xiWuCJHhHv/A6xXG/GJa2GyomGcrA9SWMprIz5Y5BBRi81YcIQXCYA+Cz8aX4PmIHj MgbpRsqCjyz70F70ULK3RkXpfxLemKI1QeumIXQQMbl0Y1wiosUYasUH1PT1YEBCOQzo CqzAKL2k9cyHjJ5p40/owKvL1MlfUsXKRog6H8b1GjeK1bK77Mei9GKgzgnzqIM+ON+F 3qAQxmIFr7aK7fr0urJsyhNVNDuAGsxx8BlvS/B1AlFoN/CYQtHWzAK2uPGxzJe/Un6e 4HDA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6LK2SpUDVisf3ZuRMYSasQVx4GKk3S/PNe68iswpF7A=; b=PEdfeF4EswDnt0lnjQBrmXSMhf+1tImbUZcUrB7s9b1sk2ZSj1jhPKC1o2hLIrVIXx kbrL9ajXQC7kIbWsEa17mo8zq76xhXnk5bg1sMwzkJMPrD/xsFxBtNnZDIN5QfwuhcGo CCVInRKHN48fUVsm8bl5d8G2LARQCKt/wRl+Ryuz4FD3y1lzqzP9Ofod53vwJVzeIpmK ulttfj9MQ+oml64cndRpSQ41lLm+oNGeUiFt1m7jOSVQdGPgEGMVPEyBaLDQr/Nfv+OB IyWn2whke4O6wJ+PynvxgNFizW2dYzvGu6UmPrfiARlISIDbLJwtRf4ZwHEhG8imRPBc +CJw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533hfB3CyBDbwzlT3Wpqzx/UBcf3uIsxnOUZ1neTSqTah9FhRIQG BosmflmEcqRcMZVHMe461rk8IKuSptt3Gj5xMSHXN+IZnXc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwFK6LSeNObF+PnNF5PYDtlkphLRUnU1e1w7uvztDR3ykbNkHVux1tvbMajoL5uaI4XDK2RNzGIj3uLd8hkbxY= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:cf32:: with SMTP id m18mr20670363wmg.187.1643483119931; Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:05:19 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0f83f174-eeca-30fb-7b98-77fb0da80f2e@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: John Cowan Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2022 14:05:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: Will Senn Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008ee27405d6bd3ba3" Subject: Re: [TUHS] Looking back to 1981 - what pascal was popular on what unix? X-BeenThere: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: TUHS main list Errors-To: tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "TUHS" --0000000000008ee27405d6bd3ba3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" It would be interesting to know if the S.T. in P. programs will run on {GNU,Free} Pascal. On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 7:41 PM Will Senn wrote: > On 1/28/22 5:31 PM, Will Senn wrote: > > On 1/28/22 5:18 PM, Dan Cross wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Will Senn wrote: > >> I'm reading in, Kernighan & Plauger's 1981 edition of Software Tools in >> Pascal and in the book, the author's mention Bill Joy's Pascal and Andy >> Tanenbaum's as being rock solid. So, a few related questions: >> >> 1. What edition of UNIX were they likely to be using? >> > > I'm afraid I can't speak to your 2nd and 3rd questions, but I can offer > what I think is a reasonable guess about the first. > > One of the neat things about Unix and Unix-adjacent books of that era is > that very often the copyright page held some information about the > production of the book itself. I just so happened to have a copy of, > "Software Tools in Pascal" sitting on my desk, and it says, "This books as > set in Times Roman and Courier by the authors, using a Mergenthaler > Linotron 202 phototypesetter driven by a PDP-11/70 running the Unix > operating system." > > Given the PDP-11 and the date (1981) one may reasonably conclude that it > was running 7th Edition. I imagine the pascal was Joy's, from Berkeley. > > - Dan C. > > Great hint. 20 seconds after I hit send on the original email, I came > across this: > http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-on-pascal.html > > Where Brian Kernighan talks about the challenges they faced porting the > ratfor examples into pascal. He explains that: > > The programs were first written in that dialect of Pascal supported by the > Pascal interpreter pi provided by the University of California at Berkeley. The > language is close to the nominal standard of Jensen and Wirth,(6 > ) with good > diagnostics and careful run-time checking. Since then, the programs have > also been run, unchanged except for new libraries of primitives, on four > other systems: an interpreter from the Free University of Amsterdam > (hereinafter referred to as VU, for Vrije Universiteit), a VAX version of > the Berkeley system (a true compiler), a compiler purveyed by Whitesmiths, > Ltd., and UCSD Pascal on a Z80. All but the last of these Pascal systems > are written in C. > > So, you were right about it being Joy's pi. > > Thanks, > > Will > > > On the good news front, I was able to find a working pi/px environment - > 4.2bsd built from tape on simulated vax780 works great (thank god vi works > there, too) and will run the programs in the book without mods, out of the > box. 4.3 would probably work similarly (I put it on the list). I tried > compiling the pascal distributed via 2bsd on v7, but wasn't able to get it > built (story of my life). This is prolly expected because the notes in the > distro say "This is still set up for version 6", so I'll stick with 4.2 for > the time being. Just glad to have a working environment to supplement the > reading. > > Will > --0000000000008ee27405d6bd3ba3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It would be interesting to know = if the S.T. in P. programs will run on {GNU,Free} Pascal.

On Fri, Jan = 28, 2022 at 7:41 PM Will Senn <wi= ll.senn@gmail.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
On 1/28/22 5:31 PM, Will Senn wrote:
=20
On 1/28/22 5:18 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
=20
On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 6:09 PM Will Senn <will.senn@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
I'm reading in, Kernighan & Plauger's 1981 edition of Software Tools in Pascal and in the book, the author'= s mention Bill Joy's Pascal and Andy Tanenbaum's as being rock solid. So, a few related questions:

1. What edition of UNIX were they likely to be using?

I'm afraid I can't speak to your 2nd and 3rd questions,=C2=A0but I can offer what I=C2=A0think is a reason= able guess about the first.

One of the neat things about Unix and Unix-adjacent books of that era is that very often the copyright page held some information about the production of the book itself. I just so happened to have a copy of, "Software Tools in Pascal" sitting on my desk, and it says, "= This books=C2=A0as set in Times Roman and Courier by the authors, using a Mergenthaler Linotron 202 phototypesetter driven by a PDP-11/70 running the Unix operating system."

Given the PDP-11 and the date (1981) one may reasonably conclude that it was running 7th Edition. I imagine the pascal was Joy's, from Berkeley.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Dan C.

Great hint. 20 seconds after I hit send on the original email, I came across this:
http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/bwk-on-pascal.html

Where Brian Kernighan talks about the challenges they faced porting the ratfor examples into pascal. He explains that:

The programs were first written in that dialect of Pascal supported by the Pascal interpreter pi provided by the University of California at Berkeley.=C2=A0 The language is close to the nominal standard of Jensen and Wirth,(6) with good diagnostics and careful run-time checking.=C2=A0 Since then, the programs have also been run, unchanged except for new libraries of primitives, on four other systems: an interpreter from the Free University of Amsterdam (hereinafter referred to as VU, for Vrije Universiteit), a VAX version of the Berkeley system (a true compiler), a compiler purveyed by Whitesmiths, Ltd., and UCSD Pascal on a Z80.=C2=A0 All but the last of these Pascal systems are written in C.
So, you were right about it being Joy's pi.

Thanks,

Will

On the good news front, I was able to find a working pi/px environment - 4.2bsd built from tape on simulated vax780 works great (thank god vi works there, too) and will run the programs in the book without mods, out of the box. 4.3 would probably work similarly (I put it on the list). I tried compiling the pascal distributed via 2bsd on v7, but wasn't able to get it built (story of my life). This is prolly expected because the notes in the distro say "This is still set = up for version 6", so I'll stick with 4.2 for the time being. J= ust glad to have a working environment to supplement the reading.

Will
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