From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 1252 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2023 17:58:40 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Apr 2023 17:58:40 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C9D1411CE; Sat, 22 Apr 2023 03:58:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-ua1-x932.google.com (mail-ua1-x932.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::932]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BFC140EFE for ; Sat, 22 Apr 2023 03:58:21 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-ua1-x932.google.com with SMTP id a1e0cc1a2514c-77106047c7dso674740241.1 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2023 10:58:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20221208.gappssmtp.com; s=20221208; t=1682099900; x=1684691900; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=sL95/c1E7BUoXxAYkV04i8xQ/ip9264Kidp6ks3a/Ns=; b=Sv0DaiL8Noszkty33r4jrB5Az6y/0zeu7M9LrNeE9s05aaM9wUM/eI6Ln9cazti82W LqSB3tt1S+lv9TGtkzs86O0Kn9b4tauFtFuMtLf5fX8Zt4LJqqSm5Bd7L+iEoz2e4Kys UfSYNIodQQmpC3aSlZlD2aOo8L7KRG9qi8xpLQsHjhyC1tEel0ExasslB1/OSYMKPLfd wfnKOp+SyzbAQJK/ckDeS2Sbi4BC1t4NMp40YGPNEBeZ51/uvHJrUtIKOyrAtIIvSwQy LNc5w2hSBiFW32oam8NLVrn74fsSb/8jgeE7FqyqZlNf3OZ3fyQoGtNL7RunX+CxgPq4 SvWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1682099900; x=1684691900; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=sL95/c1E7BUoXxAYkV04i8xQ/ip9264Kidp6ks3a/Ns=; b=IBNX0VsKoEIMy3seS9ZBGN2jSRvjYcm9ps6TjahSUKlVzFfVGonYMnPjWltR4R7get hRLzSNBPBUJNsShFkKMzcJfJs1nlK3ZC8hPc/CnzhOXFc1+fH8RuV/cMalS2c29ViE71 fKqkBpphBiKPXgRL77b34RSggTfORN7fdSsMiALaRWwr7UrECmuBREOYAw9y7hxYBwFP DxHxM4J5tjRTzvADmU879hYBVTdAc5wH0wOkXNoWIfGUfUsYlsHxth6J8Lv9+NvpJGXH sC7Fuxs8ZSFf9JQGVn2z/qjUQVbR1kEM0vOA9mfJndfUeMSkPphVYOlEyPYsSyTWnFEv 7Z3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9dPyGF36CWFo+HTSU5aREDSoEG5ExPxAmh/r2OyhKWqudMH6MF1 oi0FXHdc+r1gIloRFY6ua4+GSWntJn4/DmTpNcosqjeGGDDr+leo X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350b3CPbhGydbZTX4aU16yapPhkasIfpFcOGe9JO1qXdkNbhSOS5YArxcWConF33yoaumrP5Ga/6Ou7023TG5Yiw= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:5642:0:b0:43f:b997:beea with SMTP id k63-20020a1f5642000000b0043fb997beeamr1270315vkb.13.1682099900397; Fri, 21 Apr 2023 10:58:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20230421143713.492DF18C0A3@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> In-Reply-To: <20230421143713.492DF18C0A3@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> From: John Cowan Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2023 13:58:09 -0400 Message-ID: To: Noel Chiappa Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000a57cd05f9dc679b" Message-ID-Hash: D6KHBF625FKCQ5KCZEG2SMHV4HB4PYRW X-Message-ID-Hash: D6KHBF625FKCQ5KCZEG2SMHV4HB4PYRW X-MailFrom: cowan@ccil.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: tuhs@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [TUHS] Re: UNIX "Machine Layer" Standards List-Id: The Unix Heritage Society mailing list Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --0000000000000a57cd05f9dc679b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 10:37=E2=80=AFAM Noel Chiappa wrote: > A little wrong on that date. Even the PDP-11/20 (the first -11) had a boo= t > ROM: > The PDP-8/E, which came out in the same year, had a boot ROM if you were using DECtape as the system device for OS/8. The bootstrap for the TD8E DECtape controller was a full device driver 128 words long, way beyond human toggle-in capability. It was put up in addresses 77600-77777, which meant that you could only have 28 kwords rather than the full 32 kwords of RAM. In principle I suppose you could have toggled in the RIM loader (17 words) and read in the TD8E bootstrap using either Model 33 or high-speed paper tape, but I doubt if anyone did that. RIM format alternated between addresses and values, with each taking up two characters on the paper tape. --0000000000000a57cd05f9dc679b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fr= i, Apr 21, 2023 at 10:37=E2=80=AFAM Noel Chiappa <jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
= =C2=A0
A little wron= g on that date. Even the PDP-11/20 (the first -11) had a boot
ROM:

The PDP-8/E, = which came out in the same year, had a boot ROM if you were using DECtape a= s the system device for OS/8.=C2=A0 The bootstrap for the TD8E DECtape cont= roller was a full device driver 128 words long, way beyond human toggle-in = capability.=C2=A0 It was put up in addresses 77600-77777, which meant that = you could only have 28 kwords rather than the full 32 kwords=C2=A0of RAM.

In princ= iple I suppose you could have toggled in the RIM loader (17 words) and read= in the TD8E bootstrap using either Model 33 or high-speed paper tape, but = I doubt if anyone did that.=C2=A0 RIM format alternated between addresses a= nd values, with each taking up two characters on the paper tape.
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