[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Cory Smelosky]

Friend asked an odd question:

Were VAXen ever used to send/receive faxes large-scale?  What software was 
used and how was it configured?

Was any of this run on any of the UCB VAXen?

-- 
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects

[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Dave Horsfall]

On Sun, 4 Jan 2015, Cory Smelosky wrote:

> Were VAXen ever used to send/receive faxes large-scale?  What software 
> was used and how was it configured?

I don't think fax modems were even invented then, were they?

I remember using FlexFax (then renamed to Hylafax) quite a lot, sometimes 
for nefarious purposes (it was trivial to fake the CSID)...

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Bliss is a MacBook with a FreeBSD server."
http://www.horsfall.org/spam.html (and check the home page whilst you're there)

[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Clem Cole]

Yeah - some of the modems were.  IIRC: Sam Leffler  (sam "usual email
punctuation" errno.com) did the original FlexFax SW and we had a couple
kicking around.  My memory is that the modems that could also support Fax
in those days, sucked at UUCP, so most of us did want to dedicate a phone
line to one of them.

Also the scanner interface was not very easy.   We tried to replace an HP
fax machine with SW, including a scanner and fax modem, but it was not very
satisfactory for the non-technical types.

I don't have any memory of "large-scale" use however.   What was cool was
some of the printers knew how to use PS as the format, instead of the
1860's style scanning [yes, FAX was invented for the US civil war and
originally ran over telegram lines - the current format is just a super-set
of the old mechanical scan system from those days].

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 4 Jan 2015, Cory Smelosky wrote:
>
> > Were VAXen ever used to send/receive faxes large-scale?  What software
> > was used and how was it configured?
>
> I don't think fax modems were even invented then, were they?
>
> I remember using FlexFax (then renamed to Hylafax) quite a lot, sometimes
> for nefarious purposes (it was trivial to fake the CSID)...
>
> --
> Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Bliss is a MacBook with a FreeBSD server."
> http://www.horsfall.org/spam.html (and check the home page whilst you're
> there)
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Erik E. Fair]

It amazes and annoys me to this day how many PDFs purported to be "electronic documents" are merely pictures of paper. Not only am I missing my 2000's-era personal jetpack, I'm still waiting for my fully paperless office.

Though given the incredible state of computer security, perhaps that's a good thing.

	Erik <fair at netbsd.org>

[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Jacob Ritorto]

sorry to troll, but i think we lost at least three decades to microsoft,
so, now that that's almost over we should be able to get on with things :D

On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Erik E. Fair <fair-tuhs at netbsd.org> wrote:

> It amazes and annoys me to this day how many PDFs purported to be
> "electronic documents" are merely pictures of paper. Not only am I missing
> my 2000's-era personal jetpack, I'm still waiting for my fully paperless
> office.
>
> Though given the incredible state of computer security, perhaps that's a
> good thing.
>
>         Erik <fair at netbsd.org>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

On Jan 4, 2015, at 2:40 PM, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:

> Yeah - some of the modems were.  IIRC: Sam Leffler  (sam "usual email punctuation" errno.com) did the original FlexFax SW and we had a couple kicking around.  My memory is that the modems that could also support Fax in those days, sucked at UUCP, so most of us did want to dedicate a phone line to one of them. 

In what sense?  Telebit came along early with their UUCP g-protocol spoofing, but that predated all the Hayes et al FAX support.  By the time modems grew (good) FAX support, UUCP was dying out in favour of PPP over V.xxx 56kb/s.  I had banks of Hayes (and other) V.x modems that handled dialup 38.4 + FAX quite cheerfully.  The Telebit UUCP-aware modems died out quite quickly once V.32 hit the streets.

--lyndon

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[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Clem Cole]

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On Sun, Jan 4, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon at orthanc.ca> wrote:

> Telebit came along early with their UUCP g-protocol spoofing, but that
> predated all the Hayes et al FAX support.


​I don't think so.  I think it was about the same time.   We had both in
the early 1980s when 120 cps was the fastest.  Hayes may have been later
with Fax support, certainly with the 56K stuff, but we had fax support with
the slower modems from another manufacturer who's name escapes me now [IIRC
it started with a C, they were black and the SW interface was
terrible/buggy].
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[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

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> Telebit came along early with their UUCP g-protocol spoofing, but that predated all the Hayes et al FAX support. 
> 
> ​I don't think so.  I think it was about the same time.   We had both in the early 1980s when 120 cps was the fastest.  Hayes may have been later with Fax support, certainly with the 56K stuff, but we had fax support with the slower modems from another manufacturer who's name escapes me now [IIRC it started with a C, they were black and the SW interface was terrible/buggy].   

Okay, nailing it down a bit more, according to my fuzzy memory ...

1982 ish:  1200 bps hayes (the black slab)

1084-5 ish: 2400 bps

1986 ish (telebit trailblazer)

1988 ish: trailblazer 2, v.32

I don't recall commodity FAX modem support until the V.34 stuff started rolling out circa 1994(?).  I'm curious to know of anyone shipping (interoperable) modem FAX bits before then.  I admit to not knowing of anyone or thing using V.17.

--lyndon

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[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Dave Horsfall]

On Sun, 4 Jan 2015, Erik E. Fair wrote:

> It amazes and annoys me to this day how many PDFs purported to be 
> "electronic documents" are merely pictures of paper. Not only am I 
> missing my 2000's-era personal jetpack, I'm still waiting for my fully 
> paperless office.

Right after we get the paperless toilet...

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Bliss is a MacBook with a FreeBSD server."
http://www.horsfall.org/spam.html (and check the home page whilst you're there)

[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Lyndon Nerenberg]

On Jan 4, 2015, at 8:31 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:

> Right after we get the paperless toilet...

It's called an air compressor.
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[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Erik E. Fair]

I hear tell that the Japanese have paperless toilets ...

They even appear to be sold in the USA: http://www.totousa.com/products/washlets

	Erik <fair at netbsd.org>

[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Jacob Goense]

On 2015-01-04 09:30, Cory Smelosky wrote:
> Friend asked an odd question:
> 
> Were VAXen ever used to send/receive faxes large-scale?  What software
> was used and how was it configured?
> 
> Was any of this run on any of the UCB VAXen?

Early 80s INTELPOST ran on small 11s running RT-11/RSX-11 with Mills'
fuzzball bolted on top. These were hooked up to DACOM or Rapicom fax
machines.

Dedicating VAXen to do this kind of thing might have been overkill for
a long time.

/Jacob

[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

"Erik E. Fair" <fair-tuhs at netbsd.org> wrote:
 |I hear tell that the Japanese have paperless toilets ...

To the best of my knowledge civilized tribes never used paper, but
their hands and either sand or water.
Then a little bit of (creme or) oil for the rosette muscle.

On what i hear, the thing about japanese toilets seems to be that
they are so clean that you can drink their water.  (I hope this
sentence isn't inappriate.)

--steffen

[TUHS] State of networking in the early '90s

[Warren Toomey]

On Mon, Jan 05, 2015 at 10:59:26AM +0100, Jacob Goense wrote:
> Early 80s INTELPOST ran on small 11s running RT-11/RSX-11 with Mills'
> fuzzball bolted on top. These were hooked up to DACOM or Rapicom fax
> machines.

Reading this e-mail caused me to read up on the fuzzball, which then lead me
to this overview of the state of networking in the early '90s:

http://museum.media.org/eti/

	In 1990 and 1991, I made three trips around the world to write a
	technical travelogue. The result was the book "Exploring the
	Internet", originally published by Prentice-Hall. Perhaps because
	they felt the Internet trend had passed, or more likely because
	of the less-than-mainstream appeal, they allowed the book to go
	out of print. I decided to republish the book on the Internet in
	the hope that perhaps it retains some minor historical interest.

So far I've got through about 6 chapters and it's a good read. I've made it
into an epub if anybody wants a copy.

Cheers, Warren

[TUHS] State of networking in the early '90s

[Erik E. Fair]

> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 12:55:36 +1100
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org>
> 
> On Mon, Jan 05, 2015 at 10:59:26AM +0100, Jacob Goense wrote:
> > Early 80s INTELPOST ran on small 11s running RT-11/RSX-11 with Mills'
> > fuzzball bolted on top. These were hooked up to DACOM or Rapicom fax
> > machines.
> 
> Reading this e-mail caused me to read up on the fuzzball, which then lead me
> to this overview of the state of networking in the early '90s:

31 years ago almost to the day, I stayed up until 01:30 PST to write a
description of all of the networks I knew of in response to a query on the
HUMAN-NETS mailing list; it appears under the subject "The Plethora of
Networks" in HUMAN-NETS digest V7 #1 which can be found:

http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~cwm/NetStuff/Human-Nets/Volume7.html

A number of others also chimed in, and the resulting discussion inspired (and
was source material for) John S. Quarterman's book "The Matrix" (1989):

http://www.amazon.com/The-Matrix-Computer-Conferencing-Worldwide/dp/1555580335

It's a bit of a budgie-killer, but a fine snapshot of what was at that time.

	Erik <fair at netbsd.org>

[TUHS] State of networking in the early '90s

[Angus Robinson]

Hi Warren

It seems like it would be an interesting read. Would you mind sending me a
copy of the epub?

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 3:55 AM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 05, 2015 at 10:59:26AM +0100, Jacob Goense wrote:
> > Early 80s INTELPOST ran on small 11s running RT-11/RSX-11 with Mills'
> > fuzzball bolted on top. These were hooked up to DACOM or Rapicom fax
> > machines.
>
> Reading this e-mail caused me to read up on the fuzzball, which then lead
> me
> to this overview of the state of networking in the early '90s:
>
> http://museum.media.org/eti/
>
>         In 1990 and 1991, I made three trips around the world to write a
>         technical travelogue. The result was the book "Exploring the
>         Internet", originally published by Prentice-Hall. Perhaps because
>         they felt the Internet trend had passed, or more likely because
>         of the less-than-mainstream appeal, they allowed the book to go
>         out of print. I decided to republish the book on the Internet in
>         the hope that perhaps it retains some minor historical interest.
>
> So far I've got through about 6 chapters and it's a good read. I've made it
> into an epub if anybody wants a copy.
>
> Cheers, Warren
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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[TUHS] VAX faxing?

[Michael Parson]

On Mon, 5 Jan 2015, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Jan 2015, Erik E. Fair wrote:
>
>> It amazes and annoys me to this day how many PDFs purported to be
>> "electronic documents" are merely pictures of paper. Not only am I
>> missing my 2000's-era personal jetpack, I'm still waiting for my fully
>> paperless office.
>
> Right after we get the paperless toilet...

You don't know how to use the 3 clam shells?

-- 
Michael Parson
Austin, TX
KF5LGQ