[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Deborah Scherrer]

Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?  I was rather 
appalled at the rudeness in the previous conversation...

Deborah

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Larry McVoy]

Deborah,

I'm pretty sure I know the conversation (and I don't believe I was a 
part of it, just read it) and I'm 100% sure nobody intended to be 
rude, they were just trying to get at an accurate history of what
happened.

I can see how you could take offense but I don't think any was intended
and it would be a loss if you left.  Please reconsider.

--lm

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 04:39:03PM -0800, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
> Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?  I was rather
> appalled at the rudeness in the previous conversation...
> 
> Deborah

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Deborah Scherrer]

In the "good old days" of Unix, the community succeeded because we all 
shared and treated each other with respect.  Each listened to the 
other.  Sure, there were disagreements about technical issues, as well 
there should have been, but they were rarely made personal. That's what 
made that community great.  I liked those times, and loved the people in 
them.   What happened to lose those aspects?   I don't think I want to 
be part of the new community where egos seem to run rampant...

Deborah

On 12/6/17 4:41 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
> Deborah,
>
> I'm pretty sure I know the conversation (and I don't believe I was a
> part of it, just read it) and I'm 100% sure nobody intended to be
> rude, they were just trying to get at an accurate history of what
> happened.
>
> I can see how you could take offense but I don't think any was intended
> and it would be a loss if you left.  Please reconsider.
>
> --lm
>
> On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 04:39:03PM -0800, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
>> Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?  I was rather
>> appalled at the rudeness in the previous conversation...
>>
>> Deborah

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Will Senn]

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Hi Deborah,

I appreciate your comment. We need to be civil, especially in a world 
where so little civility remains. We who celebrate the past do not want 
our efforts to be diminished by our base demeanor. I do not think 
leaving is the best option, however. Perhaps this could serve as a call 
to our more honorable selves to step up and rethink our netiquette. 
Stick it out and see if the dialog improves in tone after your putting 
the community on notice. I think most folks on the list are reasonable 
and honestly desirous of a positive community experience.

Regards,

Will

On 12/6/17 6:55 PM, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
> In the "good old days" of Unix, the community succeeded because we all 
> shared and treated each other with respect.  Each listened to the 
> other.  Sure, there were disagreements about technical issues, as well 
> there should have been, but they were rarely made personal. That's 
> what made that community great.  I liked those times, and loved the 
> people in them.   What happened to lose those aspects?   I don't think 
> I want to be part of the new community where egos seem to run rampant...
>
> Deborah
>
> On 12/6/17 4:41 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
>> Deborah,
>>
>> I'm pretty sure I know the conversation (and I don't believe I was a
>> part of it, just read it) and I'm 100% sure nobody intended to be
>> rude, they were just trying to get at an accurate history of what
>> happened.
>>
>> I can see how you could take offense but I don't think any was intended
>> and it would be a loss if you left.  Please reconsider.
>>
>> --lm
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 04:39:03PM -0800, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
>>> Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?  I was rather
>>> appalled at the rudeness in the previous conversation...
>>>
>>> Deborah
>
>

-- 
GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462  7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Larry McVoy]

+1 Will.

And just as an aside, Deborah used to be president of Usenix.  She's part
of the history that this list is all about, I've appealed to her as well
to stick around.

Deborah, for the record, if it helps at all, Warren (who runs the
list), has booted at least one person who was not so cool (I'm biased
because I got into with that person, just so you know).  If people are
repeatedly out of line, it's very rare that happens, but if they are it
will get taken care of.  This is a friendly place, rudeness is not part
of the list.

I want to keep as many people around as possible, I love Unix, love
the history of it all, more history, more better.  Please consider
giving the list a second chance.

--lm

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 07:21:48PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
> Hi Deborah,
> 
> I appreciate your comment. We need to be civil, especially in a world where
> so little civility remains. We who celebrate the past do not want our
> efforts to be diminished by our base demeanor. I do not think leaving is the
> best option, however. Perhaps this could serve as a call to our more
> honorable selves to step up and rethink our netiquette. Stick it out and see
> if the dialog improves in tone after your putting the community on notice. I
> think most folks on the list are reasonable and honestly desirous of a
> positive community experience.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Will
> 
> On 12/6/17 6:55 PM, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
> >In the "good old days" of Unix, the community succeeded because we all
> >shared and treated each other with respect.? Each listened to the other.?
> >Sure, there were disagreements about technical issues, as well there
> >should have been, but they were rarely made personal. That's what made
> >that community great.? I liked those times, and loved the people in
> >them.?? What happened to lose those aspects??? I don't think I want to be
> >part of the new community where egos seem to run rampant...
> >
> >Deborah
> >
> >On 12/6/17 4:41 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
> >>Deborah,
> >>
> >>I'm pretty sure I know the conversation (and I don't believe I was a
> >>part of it, just read it) and I'm 100% sure nobody intended to be
> >>rude, they were just trying to get at an accurate history of what
> >>happened.
> >>
> >>I can see how you could take offense but I don't think any was intended
> >>and it would be a loss if you left.? Please reconsider.
> >>
> >>--lm
> >>
> >>On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 04:39:03PM -0800, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
> >>>Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?? I was rather
> >>>appalled at the rudeness in the previous conversation...
> >>>
> >>>Deborah
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> GPG Fingerprint: 68F4 B3BD 1730 555A 4462  7D45 3EAA 5B6D A982 BAAF

-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Angus Robinson]

Hi Deborah

I remember a time like that, although this was the early 2000's. I joined a
group of students at the local university. I must admit, Although the
students where abit arrogant, I learned alot not only from them but from
 the staff  that worked at the Computer Science department. I also learnt
that an old family friend helped start the Internet in South Africa. From
that, I learnt alot about history and to think outside of the box, with
what they "Jimmy Rigged" to save bandwidth in the early days.

I have been this mailing list for years and like then, I have learnt alot.
Not only about history but the basis for the technology we have now. Unlike
the students, it's extremely rare that egos come in to play. I think this
is the first. Granted I only read about 80% of the list due to time.

If I may be so bold and to ask you to to maybe remain a subscriber to the
list. As Larry has pointed out it would be a shame to have somebody with
knowledge depart due to a rare occurrence.

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:55 PM Deborah Scherrer <
dscherrer at solar.stanford.edu> wrote:

> In the "good old days" of Unix, the community succeeded because we all
> shared and treated each other with respect.  Each listened to the
> other.  Sure, there were disagreements about technical issues, as well
> there should have been, but they were rarely made personal. That's what
> made that community great.  I liked those times, and loved the people in
> them.   What happened to lose those aspects?   I don't think I want to
> be part of the new community where egos seem to run rampant...
>
> Deborah
>
> On 12/6/17 4:41 PM, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > Deborah,
> >
> > I'm pretty sure I know the conversation (and I don't believe I was a
> > part of it, just read it) and I'm 100% sure nobody intended to be
> > rude, they were just trying to get at an accurate history of what
> > happened.
> >
> > I can see how you could take offense but I don't think any was intended
> > and it would be a loss if you left.  Please reconsider.
> >
> > --lm
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 04:39:03PM -0800, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
> >> Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?  I was rather
> >> appalled at the rudeness in the previous conversation...
> >>
> >> Deborah
>
>
>
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[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Andy Kosela]

On Wednesday, December 6, 2017, Deborah Scherrer <
dscherrer at solar.stanford.edu> wrote:

> In the "good old days" of Unix


> <snip>

>
> I don't think I want to be part of the new community where egos seem to
> run rampant...
>
>
I do not want to add more fuel to the debate or even to judge anyone in it,
but just like to point out that egos were always big in this community, or
any other community, technical or not.  It is just part of a human nature.

If there would not be egos running rampant, we would have one, and not four
Open Source BSD projects now.  And dont even start me on the ego of RMS or
Linus... :D

It is a fallacy to believe that in the "good old days" people were better.
There is nothing new under the Sun and people were always the same...
for better or for worse.

Just my $0.02

--Andy
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[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Grant Taylor]

Hi Deborah,

I too would prefer that you stay subscribed and hold the rest of us in the community to a higher standard.

You asked a direct question, which deserves a direct answer.  If you choose to unsubscribe, you can do so at the following page.

http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

Thank you for your contributions.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

> On Dec 6, 2017, at 5:39 PM, Deborah Scherrer <dscherrer at solar.stanford.edu> wrote:
> 
> Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?  I was rather appalled at the rudeness in the previous conversation...
> 
> Deborah
> 
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[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Warren Toomey]

On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 04:39:03PM -0800, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
>Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?

Deborah, I'll also add my voice in to ask for you to stay on the list.
There were things said that could have been expressed better, but I
don't think that there was malicious intent. You bring a wealth of
knowledge and experience to the TUHS list, and the list would be
poorer in your absence.

Yours sincerely, Warren

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Ken Thompson]

Deborah, you've made this a better place,
so, please stay.
ken


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 04:39:03PM -0800, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
>>
>> Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?
>
>
> Deborah, I'll also add my voice in to ask for you to stay on the list.
> There were things said that could have been expressed better, but I
> don't think that there was malicious intent. You bring a wealth of
> knowledge and experience to the TUHS list, and the list would be
> poorer in your absence.
>
> Yours sincerely, Warren

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Deborah Scherrer]

Thanks for the many good words of  support.  Sure, I'll stay around.

Thanks again, everyone.
Deborah

On 12/6/17 8:26 PM, Ken Thompson wrote:
> Deborah, you've made this a better place,
> so, please stay.
> ken
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt at tuhs.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Dec 06, 2017 at 04:39:03PM -0800, Deborah Scherrer wrote:
>>> Could someone please tell me how to get off this list?
>>
>> Deborah, I'll also add my voice in to ask for you to stay on the list.
>> There were things said that could have been expressed better, but I
>> don't think that there was malicious intent. You bring a wealth of
>> knowledge and experience to the TUHS list, and the list would be
>> poorer in your absence.
>>
>> Yours sincerely, Warren

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Noel Chiappa]

So, I'm getting the impression, from the reactions about civility, etc, that
people aren't disagreeing with the characterization of "rudeness" (which can
only be meaning my posts). Can someone please point to text in my messages
which they consider "rude"? Thanks.

	Noel

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Ralph Corderoy]

Hi Noel,

> So, I'm getting the impression, from the reactions about civility,
> etc, that people aren't disagreeing with the characterization of
> "rudeness" (which can only be meaning my posts). Can someone please
> point to text in my messages which they consider "rude"? Thanks.

I've just read through a large backlog and so saw all the emails in
quick succession, and have then re-read from the archive.  I can't point
to ones where you were rude.  You politely disagreed with recollections,
e.g. from Deborah, giving references to literature, or statements, e.g.
Jon F.'s `LBL has never been part of UC Berkeley'.  You may have been
pedantic, but you didn't make it personal, and I saw no rampant ego.

This is a history list and, though in living memory, much of it is
unwritten, vague, and contradictory.  If we're not allowed to politely
disagree then we won't work to clarify.

-- 
Cheers, Ralph.
https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy

[TUHS] how do I unsubscribe

[Will Senn]

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On 12/6/17 11:27 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> So, I'm getting the impression, from the reactions about civility, etc, that
> people aren't disagreeing with the characterization of "rudeness" (which can
> only be meaning my posts). Can someone please point to text in my messages
> which they consider "rude"? Thanks.
>
> 	Noel

Noel,

Yikes! I admit to reacting to the content of Deborah's email comments 
about how things used to be and on a general level without doing my due 
diligence and checking into the specific conversation that sparked the 
appeal. If the conversation she was referring to was your ARPAnet 
clarification, and I fear it was, then was I ever out of line for 
commenting about civility, and I'd like to set the record straight here. 
I have since done my due diligence and read through the ARPAnet thread, 
and your comments were direct, for sure, but not at all inappropriate 
given the personal experience you have with this particular group and 
the circumstances of the events in question. It would seem that my 
sentiments while well-meaning ,and generally sound,  were mistakenly 
motivated by what appears to have been a skewed understanding, and you 
have my apologies for the unintended implications of my civility and 
netiquette comments. I apologize.

Regards,

Will

-- 
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