[TUHS] Re: Attempting To Build NOSC and BBN UNIXs + ARPANET code

[Michael Casadevall <michael@casadevall.pro>]

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>
>
> Replies inline:
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> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022 at 1:31 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
>
>> TUHS Disclaimer: I will claim this is primarily about getting Unix onto
>> the Arpanet, but it does also contain trace amounts of off-topic
>> information.  Reader discretion is adviced.
>>
>> Michael Casadevall wrote:
>> > I do need to do a readthrough for the VDH driver, which says its for
>> > "very distant hosts".  I think that might be for the radio links
>>
>> The hardware interfaces between a host and an IMP came in three flavors:
>> local host, distant host, and very distant host.  The first two are more
>> or less directly connected and I forget what the difference is.  But a
>> very distant host is basically connected over a phone line with a modem
>> at each end, so it's a different beast.  The VHD driver would be for
>> this, whilst IMP11A and ACC are local or distant.
>>
>>
> That makes sense; most of the time, the documentation that survives implies
> the IMP is always local; knowing this is important. From what I got the
> impression
> From the docs, very early ARPA, you had systems directly on the network,
> but most
> users had to dial into a specific terminal machine, which, based on the
> comments
> on the RFCs, was less than ideal, although I haven't quite figured out how
> things like
> netmail worked.
>
> VHD I guess was more to get more hosts online?
>
> > Hawaii
>>
>> Side note: apparently tapes from the unique Hawaii BCC 500 have been
>> saved.  So maybe that's one more possible re-Arpanet host.
>>
>>
> Oh very nice. Depending on how that works, it might be possible to make a
> radio link
> over ham. I haven't seen anything about these links aside from them being
> marked
> the logicial maps.
>
>
>> > Yup, that's what I figured. I've been trying to evaluate how much
>> > survives
>>
>> Here's my take:
>> https://gunkies.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program_(ARPANET)#Implementations
>>
>> So there are like four PDP-10 systems and two PDP-11.  The ELF system
>> will be a major challenge, RATS haven't been scanned off the printer
>> listing, and the BCC 500... oh boy, let's not go there now.
>>
>>
>  Well, there's multiple UNIX v6 stacks. There's the NOSC one which I tried
> to build,
> and I think is the oldest. The BBN  with TCP stack is a bit mislabeled: it
> still appears
> to support NCP, but none of the client apps are there, but its directly
> built off the NOSC
> stack. it's probably a fork from earlier in development. 79-80 timespawn
> would have been
> *very* early in TCP's life
>
> > I don't know if a runnable build of TENEX has been archived,
>>
>> I think so.  I "almost" got one running but there was some problem...
>
>
>>
> > or if ARPA stuff for TOPS-10/20 survived.
>>
>> TOPS-20AN seems to be there.  TOPS-10, nothing so far.
>>
>> > I also want to look into System/360 and 370, but I get the sense none
>> > of the mainframe stuff survived.
>>
>> I asked around; found nothing.  CDC, same.
>>
>>
> Oof, although par the corse for mainframe preservation :(
>
>
>> > The other problem is of the surviving stacks, they all seem to be for
>> > the later 96-bit leader, I'm not certain if any of the IMP software
>> > that has been archived is new enough to work with that.
>>
>> Nothing for the 316/516 IMP, as far as I know.  Pluribus IMP emulator,
>> anyone?
>>
>
> I do actually wonder how hard that would be. The NCP kernel code seems to
> suggest
> it would be straightforward all things considered. It honestly reminds me
> Hayes modem
> commands of all things ...
> Michael
>

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